Bachmann Union Pacific 866 Engine Not Working

[MOP]

Hi Everyone,

I found an old Bachmann train set from 1979 that was a gift from my father. It was missing the speed controller so I bought a used speed controller from eBay but I am not sure it's similar to the original controller. I tried to run the engine with it and it came alive for few seconds with some lights and noise but nothing since then. I have tried to use a voltage tester and there seems to be current coming to the track but I don't know exactly how much. I tried to open the engine but there are light wires attached to the ceiling so I can't remove the cover. I tried to clean the tracks and engine tires but no luck.

I am an absolute novice and don't know what else I can do. The biggest problem is figuring out if it's the speed controller issue, engine malfunction or connector problem.

Looking for some guidance. Thank you in advance for any help.

P.S. Please see attached photos of engine, speed controller and the connector.

[trainman203]

The only way to find out what is wrong is the scientific laboratory way, i.e to isolate and test each component independently somewhere else in some other environment that is known to work.  In other words, try running the engine on some other layout that is known to work properly. If the engine works fine there, then you know that the problem is the power source (I don't know where the word controller comes from but it's not the right word for an AC or DC model railroad power source). If it doesn't run, you know the problem is the engine.  If it runs, you know it's the power source.

The voltage tester should be telling you how much and what kind of power is on the track, if it's a true meter .  Re-read the instructions if needed.  Meters vary in the ranges they can test.  You may be using one meant for much more powerful current than the ones Model Railroads run on.

There is a possibility that you unknowingly bought a used AC toy train transformer and burned your engine up with it.  Such a unit will light up your lights and make motor noise, but be frying the DC motor in the meantime. New people often don't understand the difference between AC power sources for Lionel and American Flyer trains ("transformers") and DC power packs common on HO train sets.  The fact that your engine briefly lit up and made noise and then died is a strong indicator of this possibility.  Examine your used power unit to see if it says if the track power is AC.

There's also a high possibility that the locomotive lubrication is congealed with attendant freezing up of the gears.  No one expects old automobiles to run after sitting still for 40 years, but everyone expects Model Trains to jump up and go after decades of storage.  If the engine still lights up but doesn't move  properly, you'll need to take it apart, clean out the old solidified grease out, and re-lubricate.

And the point needs to be made that the locomotive, being that old, is not nearly as mechanically precision a piece as the model trains of today, and may never run well no matter what you do compare to new stuff.

Model Railroading is not a plug and play hobby but rather a universe of problem solving.  If wires holding something together are a problem, you'll have to cut them to let the component loose and reconnect them when you put it back together. The proper solution involves soldering, a skill that unfortunately is frequently needed, as much as I despise it.

Another problem with these very old Trains is that they probably have outmoded couplers, which means you can't add newly purchased cars to the train without changing something.

All in all, my advice to you as a beginner is to start over with a new train set that is known to function properly in all dimensions.  You save the old sentimental train set and slowly rehab the components to fit with the new.  That's probably not what you want to hear, but if you continue to fool around with old stuff of questionable functionality, it will be a world of never-ending aggravations difficult for a beginner to solve.

P.S.   you can't just attach pictures to your messages in this forum.  They won't appear, and did not. The Bach Man requires that you use some photo sharing source like photobucket.

[MOP]

Thank you so much for your detailed and helpful answer. Unfortunately I don't have access to another train set to test out different components. The power pack that I bought is apparently a Bachmann product and has both AC and DC terminals. I did use the DC terminal. The maximum output of the power pack is 17 volts. I am not sure how much power the engine actually uses. So this possibly may have have caused the problem. Your final point is well taken and this is probably a lost cause but I thought I will ask experts' opinion before discarding the train set. I am attaching a Dropbox link of the photos. Hopefully it will work.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qh98naaqmbg5aly/AAAYD83L0EkapRjyZyDc3T2Ma?dl=0

[jward]

basic testing of your power supply: At the DC terminals, use your voltmeter, set on DC range, to measure the output. This power pack does not have a direction switch, so straight up and down is the stop position and should measure 0 volts, turning it to the left or right should cause you to get a voltage reading that increases the further you turn the knob, maxing out at around 12 volts. Turning the knob the other way should cause the voltage to drop back to zero, then as you pass the straight up position the polarity should reverse and the voltage increase to 12 volts. If this test proves the power pack is working, conntect it to the track and repeat the process, this time measuring the voltage across the rails. You should get similar readings.If it passes this test the power pack is not the problem.

[MOP]

Thank you so much for the advice. My present tester shows that there is current coming to the track but not able to tell the exact value. Do you think it will be worth getting a different tester with more definitive values?

[trainman203]

A good multi meter intended for model railroad use is worth its weight in gold. You will never be sorry you bought one. Google multi meter at MicroMark, they sell several.

Do not discard the old train set.  It will be worth much in sentimental value in years from now.  Besides, the cars will certainly roll a new model railroad, even though you may need to change the couplers, a minor Model Railroad adventure that we can help you with, or you can look at the many videos on YouTube to help.

If you used DC power to test out the old engine, and it didn't move, I think we can safely say that the problem could likely a jammed up mechanism, possibly caused by congealed lubricants.  If you get the new train set, you can then safely and carefully disassemble the old engine to try to repair it without losing any train running time because you now have a new Train.  Anyone who is in this pastime for any length of time will eventually have to repair something including locomotives, so it would not be time or resources, wasted to try to work on it.  It took me a long time to work up the nerve to open up a locomotive, and I never have had one completely apart, but I have exposed gears and removed foreign material causing operational issues much like the old grease could.

Don't let any of this stuff stop you from becoming a Model Railroader.  Over my long life, it's been a very consistent source of satisfaction like none else.

[trainman203]

A little more stuff.  I looked at the photos and saw the power pack you bought. I don't think it's the problem, it looks like an old timer, but not the wrong one to use. 

The engine is certainly an old timer too, and quite likely not worth trying to fix, having less than excellent mechanical properties compared to today's engines. One solution common in today's model railroading world is to buy another mechanically identical engine known to run that might have some railroad name you don't care about, and put your historic shell on the mechanism that works.

Keep us posted on this adventure.

[MOP]

Thank you for the suggestions and encouragement. I will try to get a multi meter and see what exactly is going on. Interestingly I couldn't find any on MicroMark.

Any ideas as to why the engine came to life for few seconds? Also, a silly question: does it make a difference if the track is fully connected for the engine to work or should it work just with the connector piece (for testing purpose)? I hope I am making sense here.

I have looked at similar engines and considered buying one. But since I wasn't sure where the problem is, I have been hesitant to get one.

Do you think it's worth it to take it to a toy train repair shop and have them look at it?

[Fred Klein]

It is very possible that, given the age of the set, any and all lubrication has by now dried up and is causing the motor and drive train, i.e. gears, to bind. I've had this happen on several locomotives that had been stored for a number of years. Some of these engines did give a little lurch before freezing up. One thing you can look at is the headlight (assuming it's not burned out) - if it gets brighter as you increase the speed control, then there is definitely voltage going to the locomotive.

Back in the 70's the drive mechanisms were a lot cruder and a lot more heavy (i.e. thicker) grease was used. Over time, the oil in the grease evaporated and the grease then started to act like glue. If you feel comfortable doing it, remove the shell from the engine and just take a paper towel and wipe off all the gears you can readily access. A cotton swab works well for tight areas. Don't worry about leaving the gears dry as the engine won't be run long enough for it to matter during testing. If the engine runs, then perhaps perform a more thorough cleaning of the gears and then lightly lubricate them again. Hope this helps.

[jward]

Thank you so much for the advice. My present tester shows that there is current coming to the track but not able to tell the exact value. Do you think it will be worth getting a different tester with more definitive values?

Definitely. They aren't expensive. You can often find cheap digital ones in auto parts stores, that will allow you to measure bot AC and DC voltages, along with current and resistance. The resistance (ohms) setting is particularly useful for tracing the power connections inside a locomotive when it is off the track.

[trainman203]

Having a test track is a great idea.  Modelers who have been involved a little while realize the advantage of a separate workbench, having a separate test track with a power source as a permanent part of the workbench.  One day down the line you may get into DCC operation, and the test track would also function as the programming track where are you adjust and fine tune locomotive performance.

If you stay with this very long, you'll eventually see the advantage of having a dedicated workbench, rather than having to mobilize, and D mobilize at the kitchen table every time you want to do anything.

In our old age, we acquired a second home in a vacation area, but it's a very Small Home suited to our small income. Which means the space is very limited and I don't have a layout there.  I was trying to do kit building and repairs on a folding TV dinner table, but after getting terminally fed up with the continuing aggravation of mobilizing and demobilizing, finally realized I could buy a rolling plastic 3-drawer thing at Walmart that I could work on top of, and roll it out of the way when not being used.  I've been successfully building box, car kits, and super detailing stock plastic cabooses with lots of additional handrails and better ladders, and the drawer unit has proved to be a great place to do the work.

[MOP]

It is very possible that, given the age of the set, any and all lubrication has by now dried up and is causing the motor and drive train, i.e. gears, to bind. I've had this happen on several locomotives that had been stored for a number of years. Some of these engines did give a little lurch before freezing up. One thing you can look at is the headlight (assuming it's not burned out) - if it gets brighter as you increase the speed control, then there is definitely voltage going to the locomotive.

Back in the 70's the drive mechanisms were a lot cruder and a lot more heavy (i.e. thicker) grease was used. Over time, the oil in the grease evaporated and the grease then started to act like glue. If you feel comfortable doing it, remove the shell from the engine and just take a paper towel and wipe off all the gears you can readily access. A cotton swab works well for tight areas. Don't worry about leaving the gears dry as the engine won't be run long enough for it to matter during testing. If the engine runs, then perhaps perform a more thorough cleaning of the gears and then lightly lubricate them again. Hope this helps.

Thank you for the tips. What you are saying makes sense. Unfortunately there is no light coming on, not sure if there is a current issue or if the bulbs are burnt. I tried to remove the locomotive cover but there are several fine silver wires that are attached to ceiling of the locomotive. I am not sure if I can remove the cover without breaking these fine wires.

[MOP]

Thank you so much for the advice. My present tester shows that there is current coming to the track but not able to tell the exact value. Do you think it will be worth getting a different tester with more definitive values?

Definitely. They aren't expensive. You can often find cheap digital ones in auto parts stores, that will allow you to measure bot AC and DC voltages, along with current and resistance. The resistance (ohms) setting is particularly useful for tracing the power connections inside a locomotive when it is off the track.

Thank you. This sounds like a good idea. I will try to get one and see where the problem is.

[MOP]

Having a test track is a great idea.  Modelers who have been involved a little while realize the advantage of a separate workbench, having a separate test track with a power source as a permanent part of the workbench.  One day down the line you may get into DCC operation, and the test track would also function as the programming track where are you adjust and fine tune locomotive performance.

If you stay with this very long, you'll eventually see the advantage of having a dedicated workbench, rather than having to mobilize, and D mobilize at the kitchen table every time you want to do anything.

In our old age, we acquired a second home in a vacation area, but it's a very Small Home suited to our small income. Which means the space is very limited and I don't have a layout there.  I was trying to do kit building and repairs on a folding TV dinner table, but after getting terminally fed up with the continuing aggravation of mobilizing and demobilizing, finally realized I could buy a rolling plastic 3-drawer thing at Walmart that I could work on top of, and roll it out of the way when not being used.  I've been successfully building box, car kits, and super detailing stock plastic cabooses with lots of additional handrails and better ladders, and the drawer unit has proved to be a great place to do the work.

Thank you for the advice. Sounds like a good idea to solve the space and testing issues.

[MOP]

Hi All,

Here is the update about my Bachmann train. I obtained a multimeter as well as a Bachmann track cleaner. The voltage across the connector track after cleaning was about 18 volts. Cleaned the engine wheels and put it on the track and nothing happened. Opened the engine (see attached Dropbox link for photos) and cleaned it and put a few drops of lubricant into the small openings in the motor. Checked the resistance across the the two metal terminals and it was about 12 Ohms.  Noticed that one of the two red wires at the back end of the engine was pulled out. Opened the back cartridge with wheels but couldn't figure out where or how the detached wire should be connected.

So here are some questions:

1. Is 18 volts too high and could it have damaged to the motor when the engine spurred on for few seconds (as mentioned above)

2. Is the resistance of 12 Ohms 'ok' across the engine motor terminals or is it too high

3. What is the significance of the pulled red wire ( as shown in the picture) and does anyone know where it should be attached to

Thank you for your help.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/8u9iv5t33aom0khkcggsi/h?rlkey=ip5lcuat3b0vvt4a78xd2g8x6&dl=0