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Author Topic: queston for the Bachmann on the ER sharks?  (Read 3948 times)
robderebel

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« on: January 19, 2008, 05:13:11 AM »

 Grin

Ques 1.  I understand that Bachmann was contracted to manufacture the ER models sharks is this correct?

Ques 2.  If the answer is yes, (and I hope it is) then bachmann please tell your product development team that these locomotives are the best running N scale models in the industry Period.  No one comes close, they start about 1 mph smoothly, and increase speed (like a turbine engine) all the way to their top speed of 80 mph.  (so they are what 5 mph faster than the prototype maybe?)   What makes them so great is the motor and gear reduction combination.  I wouldn't change a thing.  Anyone whom thinks they are too slow, needs to switch to slot car racing.  As for noise the choice of power pack makes all the difference.
  In effect these sharks running characteristics are how all N scale diesel models should run.

Ques 3.  If you are going to keep manufacturing the line, perhaps you can get digitrax to put out the original dcc decoder they made for it a few years ago.
 

Rob
40 year model railroader.
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the Bach-man
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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2008, 12:21:10 AM »

Dear Rob,
We did make the Sharks for ER. They were added to our line until picked up by Models11.com, from whom they're available now.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
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robderebel

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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2008, 12:56:31 PM »

 Sad
Dear Bachmann,

  Please pass this message up the chain of command for all to read especially the design team, and the CEO of Bachmann Enterprises.

  A short history on me:   I am retired Navy, I've been in Model railroading 40 years now, most of which have been in N scale.  I've owned about every model at one time or another of N scale steam and diesel.  From Kato, Atlas, Lifelike (now Walthers) Intermountain, PCM, a multitude of brass (from different companies..

  The RF16 Shark (aside from a few shortcomings, the couplers and the weight) is the best running scale N diesel on the market today.   PCM came out with some pretty nice E7's, but the Sharks actually run better than the E7's do.    Some of us modelers figured out that the gear reduction in the Sharks is about 33:1.  This ratio along with the motor flywheel combination gives the most realistic speed range of any locomotive on the market.   I use dcc,   and the model runs so well it isn't necessary to program a speed curve into the decoder, I only  add momentum to the starting and stopping CV's.

 Higher gear ratios as in the Shark actually contribute to higher traction capability. Like a automobile, If you step on the gas to hard you break traction (or in our case friction)  metal wheels on metal rails don't have alot a friction unless one or two factors are there.  weight, and or smooth controlled speed. 
  Currently of all the companies making N scale diesels or steam for the US market have top speeds in their diesel of 100 plus mph.  I'm not quite sure of the gear reduction they are using, but I can tell you its not near the 33:1 the sharks have.

 Top speeds on Atlas varies from 104 to 120, Lifelike about the same, Kato above 150. Intermountain similar to Atlas, and PCM about 100.  The sharks on the other hand have a maximum speed of about 80 mph (about 5 mph more than the prototype) I'm not sure on your latest Spectrum because I don't own any at present,  the operation didn't impress me at the time. Add some weight to the Sharks and they will pull better than any diesel out there, without traction tires. The gear reduction also gets the motor into its torque curve better.  This equates to smooth low speeds (somewhere around 2 to 3 mph) at start,.  This also helps with running long trains, smoothness is the key to keeping the trains on the track. Any experienced modeler or prototype railroader will tell you that.

 The Shark models appearance is outstanding, with separately applied handrails, crisp body details. 

  Since Bachmann has been upgrading the steam to spectrum standards I would imagine you would do the same with your diesel line.  Well gentleman
the RF 16 Shark could of been your cornerstone model.  The basis for comparison.   Since your company made the Sharks for ER and you have the
specifications and know which factory did the work, most of the major work is done for you.(other than designing or redesigning another model)

  Your steam Locomotive line in appearance and operaton (with the new Heavy mountain) are outstanding.  Not one companys product compares with the mountain in price, appearance and operation.  The closest being Athearn's Challenger, and thats double the price.

  Your steam locomotives have separately applied details, so should your diesels.  I'm not talking every single grab iron, but the major ones on the Cab units (F units) would of been (in my opinion) deserving of the "spectrum" line.
additionally please consider dropping the old rapido couplers.  They are outdated, oversize, and hamper conversion to knuckle couplers.

  Customer base:
  I know this part is sensitive to some people, but your customer base is actually older than you think.  I used to work in Hobby shops when on shore duty, and originally right out of high school, and from observation, most long term customers (or regular model railroaders) buy locomotives in quantity,
They kitbash, modify, or just buiild large fleets.  New purchasers that come in the hobbyshop (say we have 100 newbees come in around Christmas)  don't often become long term modelers(actually less than 4 become long term modelers)  nor do they buy in quantity.   They will build a layout sometimes two, and then they end up in the closet or on ebay.  Where'as your modelers often buy locomotives, cars, scenery, buildings , control systems, signal systems.  These folks are serious in their modeling attempts. and generally always find money to purchase items, ESPECIALLY GOOD OR OUTSTANDING models.    I may venture a guess that your latest release of the heavy mountain will have brisk sales in comparision to your previous offerings.  (I'lll bet the Spectrum 2 8 0 was and is a good seller in all scales)  The major reason was the 280 was a very wanted model.

   In conclusion:

  You have (or had) in the RF16 the winning combination of whats needed in
N scale diesel locomotive detailing and more importantly operation.  Copy, mimick, reproduce the same appearance levels and operating qualities in your diesel line and take the N scale lead as the best products out there.

   I thank you all for you time and sincerly hope you consider the above suggestions. 

   To the Bachmann, please insure this gets up the chain of Command at all levels and although I'm not looking for a response if anyone at Bachmann Enterprises wishes to contact me may do so at my email: rdressel@gci.net

Thank you
Robert S. Dressel, OS1
U.S.N. (Ret)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 05:28:23 PM by robderebel » Logged
GlennW

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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2008, 07:47:18 PM »

Perhaps Bachmann could put the Shark mech's under a F9 shell? THe F9's have been in the inventory a long time. It could be easy to adapt some detail bits to the shell. For example , dual headlights, S/g, d/b,etc. As an AB pair, your F's could gain the title of pulling power champ.

Also new would be the new Bachmann Knucke Coupler. THat would offer a huge upgrade to your trainsets.

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the Bach-man
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 01:47:03 AM »

Dear Bob,
I'll pass that along.
Thanks!
the Bach-man
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johnTom

My favorite girl is the STATUE OF LIBERTY !


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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2008, 01:24:57 PM »

 While we are on this topic for the moment,at the time of the BALDWIN SHARKS introduction / production I would have expected BACHMANN to add them in their SPECTRUM LINE of locomotives.

Tom
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I like U.S. HISTORY, railroad history.etc...

Tom
Franz T

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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2008, 01:52:03 PM »

When E-R went bankrupt, Bachmann picked them up and DID carry them in their Spectrum Line for a while, although all the boxes still said "E-R Models".
FWIW, Standard Hobby Supply has a few left (only Monon, though) for $29.97 for an A/B set..
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johnTom

My favorite girl is the STATUE OF LIBERTY !


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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2008, 05:58:33 PM »

How long ago did E-R go Bankrupt did they have a website?
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I like U.S. HISTORY, railroad history.etc...

Tom
brokemoto

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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2008, 07:05:49 AM »

FWIW, Standard Hobby Supply has a few left (only Monon, though) for $29.97 for an A/B set..

Monon?  CIL never had sharks.  E-R never issued these in CIL.  They must be custom painted.    Even though CIL never had these, thirty bananas for a custom paint job is pretty good.

Neal's had some custom paints a while back:  SP black widow, BN and a couple others.  None of the BN component roads nor SP ever had these.

B&O, NYC and PRR bought these new.  PRR and EJ&E had sharks that had babyface mechanicals and electricals.  There are some spotting differences between the two.  The EJ&E's were the demonstrators.  EJ&E sold them to B&O.

E-R sold these in B&O, NYC and PRR.  The B&Os came in 1959 and 'as delivered', NYCs came in lightning stripes and cigar band and PRRs in single and five stripe.  There were also Baldwin demonstrators (although the prototypes of these were not RF-16s, they were babyfaces in sharks' clothing), Monongahelas and D&Hs.  The Monongahela got two A-B pairs of ex-NYC units that it traded in to GE.  Monongahela cannibalised one of the Bs and sent back the hulk to GE.  When Monongahela finished with the A-B-A set, D&H wound up with the two As.  The two As still exist, although they have been under a tarpaulin somewhere in Southeastern Michigan for a number of years.

The E-R D&Hs are difficult to find.  Those who do have them for sale usually have prices on them that are above the original list.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 07:07:48 AM by brokemoto » Logged
GlennW

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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2008, 09:52:56 PM »

http://ho-scaletrains.net/id2.html

Found this link to a little history on E-R Models. It appears they began as an importer of European Rail makers. They had a monorail. I can remember a nice model of the Space Station along with their HO & N items. It appears they went bankrupt in 2003. The website may lead you to a porn site now.

I have a set of D&H units. They look & run very well.
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David Leonard

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« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2008, 11:31:38 AM »

"Monon" refers to the Monongahela railroad (MGA), which operated out of Brownsville PA. The ER MGA sharks are hard to find, so if you want some, act quickly.
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