ON30- O Scale

[RockinRocky]

Okay new in train sets, I have collected over the years lots of 1:50 and 1:64 scale equipment ( construction and farm, ect.) Now have a son coming along and he likes trains. Wanting to set up a train layout and incoporate my toys ( I'm the big kid here @ 36) with his toys. The part I am having problems is deciding on the best layout. Have a small ho set set now but want to go to O scale for the size comparrisons. Trying to get some input on the pro's and con's of full O compared to ON30 and which has more operating car and working fetures.

[Woody Elmore]

Real "O" scale is not for children and there are no operating cars. You want to look into O gauge tinplate - such as Lionel or Williams. I have no idea if anyone produces "operating" cars anymore - the days of the Lionel milk car, or hobo/cop on the gondola car have long passed.

I am sure that there are no "operating" cars in On30 - this number denotes quarter inch (or O) scale but running on narrow gauge track and in the case of On30, on HO track.

You might consider looking into the various Thomas Tank engine lines.

[az2rail]

 I think that you will find young children are more attracted to a larger train. G gauge to be exact. The large size seems to hold their atttention longer. You could start with a in-expensive christmas set, and see how he reacts to it. My nephew likes my FN3 a lot more than my O scale or On30. He like action. I run  my O scale more prototypical, and he find it boring.

O gauge operating accessories are still going strong also. The milk car and cranes are still very popular. Perhaps these would interest him also.

If you have some clubs around, take your son to them and see what interests him.

Bruce

[ebtbob]

RockinRocky,

        First comparison......On30 sets usually come with curved,  HO scale track at 18 inch radius.   In HO scale,  18r is about as tight as you would want to go because it limits you to size of engines,  and even cars in some cases.   That being said,  in O scale,  that measures out to 36 inch radius,  so you need about 6.5 foot in width to create one end of an oval.  In O scale,   most modelers are using radii measure in "forties" of inches - 42r,  44r,  46r.  In such cases,  a basic piece of plywood at 4x8 would not be sufficient for a curved area .  O scale,  is big.   O gauge,  the Lionel,  Williams,  K Line,  etc that employ the three rail track can be used in a smaller area.
        With On30 you can get down to HO scale area for track.   The biggest real estate grabber are the structures.   You will be surprised how fast you take up space with buildings.
        As far as animation....operationg cars etc,  as was stated,  you need to be in the Lionel,  Williams,  etc.  world.

[C.S.R.R. Manager]

Maybe I can clarify a bit.  When you talk about O-Scale, there are two large groups of modelers.  There is the "old-school" group, which runs the older style, more toy-like trains that run on 3-rail track.  There are several names for this group, including 027, 3-railers [since their trains run on 3-rail track], Hi-railers [since their rails are larger], tinplate, and Lionel, among others.  Most of these trains can be run on track that has very tight curves, although some folks run 3-rail track with very wide curves.  In general, the 3-rail trains would have more operating accessories.  Here are some images from Wholesale Trains.







The other group is a more recent development, and they run more accurate "scale" models on 2-rail track.  For this group, wide curves are necessary, and the wider, the better.  And there are very few "operating" accessories for these scale models.



Hopefully that helps somewhat.  I've seen On30 used alongside both 3-rail and 2-rail models in O-scale.

[lvrr325]

There are all sorts of O-tinplate operating accessories out there, stuff made recently as well as the vintage Lionel pieces.   For young kids that's what you want.   

So far as I know there are no "operating" On30 cars - On30 is O scale, narrow guage on 30-inch gauge track which happens to be the same distance between the rails as HO scale standard gauge.  You could use the same O-scale structures and the like with them, though. 

[Sherwood]

I had a similar situation a few years ago and proceeded as follows with certain success -- see postscript:  Many years after abandoning a very limited surviving HO collection I discovered both the emergence of ON30, rekinding a long dormant interest in narrow guage, and the emergence of fairly realistic O scale 3 -rail trains that could still be operated by a 5 year old.  My son's interest in trains was entirely in the wooden train Thomas vein at the time, and included much layout building and rebuilding. 

I bought an MTH starter set and some extra MTH track (similar to EZ track with integrated roadbed) and a Lionel Thomas 0-27 set that he could run on the same tracks, and an ON30 C&S set for me.  The Thomas could be run on the floor temorarily, and a 4 x 8 "temporary" layout was built with an EZ track "ON30" loop around a two path MTH O-31 oval, a mountain and some roads and buildings.  He was really too young to be interested to help with the layout at the time, and became more interested in computers and video games than trains -- but I still get to dabble in the hobby a few years later.  I am mostly pursuing On30, but certain near scale size and detailed O-3 rail trains(except track, wheels and couplers) are part of my short and long term layout plans for the interchange point.

The post script for my son is as follows - we build a few computers together to follow that interst, but once he had the performance he needed , his computer game interests went to... simulating the building,  riding, and operation of roller coasters, right down to having to engineer them to work and run the theme park business... not exactly trains but close.  After a while he got into building "real" model roller coasters, and is part of a small following who buy up multiple Knex roller coaster kits on E-bay, build elaborate systems, and put them on U-tube for each other to comment and critique - a bit like our fourm here but multi-media. 

So in a way he is a chip off the old block, but updated to today - a toddler obsession with Thomas did not turn out to be a lifetime hobby of modelling trains from ancient history, but we can appreciate what each other is doing in the basement...and share a few tips and tools.  He has a much shorter time span for a project than we do - he will spend hours over a few weeks with a new "layout", get it working correctly, take a video, edit and post.. and tear donw to pursue a new design incorporating some more complex addition.

Good luck & as the Bachmann says, "have fun" in the process regardless of the outcome.

[wjstix]

Actually the term "hi-railer" refers to guys who run O scale (1:48) equipment on three rail track; except for the track, their layouts are 'to scale'. That term in that use has been around at least since the early eighties, and I suspect goes back farther than that. The advantage is you can run scale sized stuff on relatively sharper curves than you could with two rail 'scale stuff', which often uses 72" radius curves. Even the largest Lionel products (or MTH etc.) can take an 0-72 (72" diameter) curve, and some scale sized Lionel stuff can go down to 0-36 track.

Lionel began making scale sized products in the 1930's, and many scale layouts used Lionel's 4-6-4 Hudson, Milwaukee Hiawatha 4-4-2, and Union Pacific M-10000 models...often on the same layout!! (Although usually with outside-third rail trackage.)

[Woody Elmore]

I thought that the term "Hi railer" referred to Lionel trains that had been modified to run on two rail code 172 track using an outside third rail. There was milled roadbed made expressedly for this purpose and Walthers sold third rail shoes and a kit to convert Lionel engines to outside third rail. The thrid rail was always "HO" rail - code 100.

My godfather had a basement filled with Lionel trains - all converted to outside third rail and since he had some Walthers mu cars lettered for NYC, the third rail didn't seem out of place.

[ebtnut]

Hi-Rail as a term has been around since the 1930's.  In general it refers to modeling using tinplate equipment in a scale setting.  It didn't matter whether the third rail was inside or outside; the term has to do with the wheel and track standards.  Gargraves for decades made three rail flex track with the inside third rail blackend to reduce its visibility, and the ties were scale length and spacing for this purpose.  Note this also--just before WWII, Lionel made some scale O equipment, including the J-3 Hudson and a PRR B-6 0-6-0 that were 2-rail with scale wheels.  They were very nice models for their time, and are highly collectible today. 

[Woody Elmore]

They also did OO before the war and did the same locomotives - hudson and B-6 switcher, in OO scale. I saw an original set once many moons ago at a table at the Timonium show. The guy had the b-6 switcher, several cars and Lionel OO track. This stuff is very rare.

The O scale version of the Hudson was the 700e. My godfather had one - a beautiful locomotive. I wish I knew what happened to it.

I can't remember the name of the company that made milled roadbed - it was available in O and HO. I remember that the owner was electrocuted using his milling equipment.

[ebtnut]

Woody:  There was True-Scale, which made milled wood roadbed in HO and O (maybe S too?).  The other outfit was Midlin.  Their roadbed included  slots milled into it for the rail.  You had to use Midlin's own brand of rail, which was drawn with a ridge on the base.  You tapped the rail into the slots, and it was in gauge (supposedly).  Thje latter may be what you are thinking of, since I don't remember Midlin being available when I got into the hobby back in the early 1960's.

[Woody Elmore]

Yes - Midlin was the company. The guy's name was Chemidlin, he shortened it. My godfather's high rail layout had 48" radius curves, all done wwith Midlin roadbed. Running rail was code 172 (to take the Lionel flanges) and the outside third rail was code 100. I believe he used cast bronze frogs that he got from somewhere. After he passed away I went through his train things with his daughters; He had cigar boxes filled with Carl Auel trucks as well as Walther's passenger trucks. He also had a small community filled with Plasticville houses and accessories.

I looked at pictures today and see that he had the Lionel semi scale Hudson with cab number 5349 (I think the last digit is 9.) Sometime when he was sick some trains disappeared. We think maybe some repairman in the basement had sticky fingers. His daughter still has his train of Madison cars with matching red GG-1. Unfortunately, they all have been altered for outside third rail.

Before he got sick he told me that he wanted to go and ride on the DRGW and was thinking about adding a western narrow gauge area to his layout. I can just imagine a k-27 parked next to a GG-1!