Heavy 4-8-2 + separate tender = no go??

[wjstix]

OK, I'm stumped.  I just bought an undec USRA 4-8-2 heavy. The undec version only comes with the rectangular tender, so I bought a separate undec long vanderbilt tender to use with it. The 4-8-2 heavy is available in decorated versions with the long vanderbilt tender, and the connections between the tender and engine are the same on both types of tenders, so there should be no problem.

So when I go to try it out, I hooked up the engine to the vanderbilt tender. Nothing, no movement, nothing. I then tried it with the rectangular tender. Nothing, but after about five minutes, I got it to start running. So I figure OK now it will work, so I put the vanderbilt back on. Again, nothing. So now I put the rectangular one on again, and now it's running again. 

Am I missing something?? I can't see any reason the engine won't work with the vanderbilt tender...of course after removing it a couple of times, I've probably loosened a wire or two in the plug, since it's so hard to get out!! 

[Atlantic Central]

wjstix,

The long vandy tender DOES work with the Heavy 4-8-2 with no modifications necessary.

The fact that you had some problem with the orignal tender says your problem is something other than compatiblity.

Loose wires or pickup wipers not working are the most likely causes.

The plugs must be all the way in and the wipers on the back of the drivers must be making contact with the back edge of the drivers.

A small screwdriver is ideal to pry loose the plugs so as to avoid damaging the wires. It does take patience and care and is not intended to be done often. The Idea is to assemble it, put it on the track and leave it there. So when it does require removal, care is the order of the day.

The USRA Heavy 4-8-2 is one of Bachmann's most reliable Spectrum models. I have six and all are great runners.

Sheldon

[wjstix]

Thanks, I'll keep testing it out. I've tried being sure everything is plugged in correctly - I have several Spectrum engines and usually there is no problem with getting things running.

I put the engine in a foam cradle upside down and found that with the rectangular tender connected, I could get the engine to run by using alligator clips to connect power to the tender trucks. Nothing when I tried it with the vanderbilt one. I looked inside and there are no obvious loose wires so perhaps there is an issue with the lightboard or something??

[kevin2083]

You might just try puting the PC board from the original tender in the vandy tender.

[Atlantic Central]

kevin,

He is having problems even with the orignal tender,

AND, for the ten millionth time, the circuit boards are electrically the same in these two tenders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sheldon

[wjstix]

You might just try puting the PC board from the original tender in the vandy tender.

Yup that's what I ended up doing. For some reason even the original tender didn't work at first, but eventually it started working. I'm guessing something is either wrong with the vanderbilt's circuit board, or a wire is connected to the wrong connection on it or something. There were no loose wires or anything.

Actually it might work out OK, as the now-gutted rectangular tender has an opening in the floor for a speaker. I'll have to see if it will fit one of the other Spectrum engines I have that I want to add sound to. If so, I could just swap out the floor parts and make it a little easier to get a speaker in there properly. 

[kevin2083]

Sorry. I can't keep track of which does and doesn't work. Maybe I should just quit while I'm behind...

[rogertra]

Kevin.

Have you tried to turn the tender's trucks around so that the wheels are on different rails?  The tender trucks have a habit of swivelling and if the + and - sides get swapped around, you have problems.

Remember K.I.S.S.

Look always for the simplest solution first, not the most complex, as in "Is the circiut board toast?"

[wjstix]

Kevin.

Have you tried to turn the tender's trucks around so that the wheels are on different rails?  The tender trucks have a habit of swivelling and if the + and - sides get swapped around, you have problems.

Remember K.I.S.S.

Look always for the simplest solution first, not the most complex, as in "Is the circiut board toast?"

Yup, I tried connecting the trucks to the DC power via alligator clips, nothing. When I opened up the tender, I tried connecting the clips directly to the wires coming from the circuit board, again nothing. Then I tried touching the DC power wires to the points where the truck connections are soldered to the circuit board, still nothing.

[rogertra]

Not sure how the pick up wheels are wired as I don't want to take a tender apart but  have you confirmed that the tender wheels are picking up electricity from the rail and that there is a circuit between the wheels and the wires that take the power to??  Wherever they go?

If "yes", that means you're picking up electricity from the wheels.  If "No", then that's where your problem is.  Obviously.  :-)


Do you have a broken connection at the terminals where the tender connects to the loco?  It's  not an unkown problem with those little connectors.  Been there, done that and hard wired the tender and loco together and coiled the slack inside the tender body.

[Ten Wheeler]

This is a "slightly off topic" post since I have just ordered the long Vandy tender to use with my Spectrum 4-8-2 LIGHT Mountain.....  does anyone have any idea if I will be facing a simular problem with my "tender swap"?

Dumb me, I assumed that B'mann tenders would be a correct match...

         
Bob/Ten Wheeler

[Atlantic Central]

Ten Wheeler,

Your light Mountain will not work with the long vandy tender without some changes.

The following is slightly long but should help:

Tender Swap â€" Bachmann medium Vanderbilt oil tender (Item #89905) with 63” driver 10 wheeler (Item #82307)

Initial test using jumpers provided with the tender â€" dead short, no operation.

Original plan â€" move 10 wheeler circuit board into new tender. This proved unworkable for several reasons, 10 wheeler circuit board too large and wires too short to fit into Vanderbilt tender without major modifications to both the tender and the circuit board.

New plan â€" can existing circuit board from Vanderbilt tender be rewired to work with 10 wheeler. A simple examination of both circuit boards revealed that while different, they both have the same basic connections, so the problem must lie in pin assignments in the connectors.

Tracing wires and a few simple checks revealed that the two wire connector simply brings the loco pickups to the circuit board. Reversing the wires on one end of the two wire jumper corrected this. Now the loco runs but in the wrong direction.

Two of the wires on the four wire plug are the motor leads. Reversing them gave us correct operational direction.

This only left the front headlight. The circuit board in the Vanderbilt tender is for the 2-8-0 which has 12 volt lamps for lighting. The 10 wheeler uses LED’s, this is the main reason the circuit board is different. Rather than trying to modify the circuit, I simply replaced the loco headlight LED with a 12 volt lamp.

Additionally I added weight to the Vanderbilt tender bringing it weight to about 5 oz. and replaced all couplers with genuine Kadee #148 on both the loco front and tender.

Result â€" loco now converted, runs well with original 10 wheeler draw bar and looks great. 

This issue seems to be tied to what tender cam with what loco in the first place. I do not have all of the Bachmann spectrum locos, but from what I have seen, read and experienced, the following may be a good beginning of a compatibility chart:

Light Mountain & Consolidation will work with all of the "medium" tenders.

Heavy Mountain and 2-6-6-2 will work with the long coal tender, hicken tender and long vandy tender

Russian shares same tender with some 10 wheelers, so I am guessing they share the same circuit board.

The 10 wheeler is really a wild card here because it comes with three different tenders, depending on roadname. Some have the low, small "pre 1900" looking tender, some have the small tender from the Russian and one has the same tender as the consolidation, but obviously with a different circuit board.

But again, I think most of these differences are just the pin assignments and the type of headlight.


Sheldon

[Ten Wheeler]

Thanks for the fast reply, Sheldon...  I do just happen to have a Spectrum 4-4-0 also, which I already have a decoder in and it is operating just fine, but my problem is with a new long vandy tender I just ordered from B'mann, and in using it as the new primary tender on my Light 4-8-2 instead of the coal tender that came with my Lt. Mountain (stock # 81605 New Haven).

Will I have to switch boards, hard wire, or what

Thanks again...  Bob/Ten Wheeler

[Atlantic Central]

Ten Wheeler,

Carefully read my post above, it will give you the information you need to simply rearange the wires in the plugs, keeping the board that comes in the long vandy tender, but, you will have to replace the 12 volt headlight in the loco with an LED.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

Ten Wheeler - either hard wire the decoder into the Vandy or swap boards with the light Mountain tender.  The 16V's circuit board is not compatable with the light Mountain.
Gene