Spectrum Steam Durability

[Yampa Bob]

PN,
Thank you for the kind comments.  At my age I seldom receive accolades from others.

I suppose my pre-operation procedures are a holdover from many years designing and flying radio controlled airplanes, and from flying full scale as a private pilot.  A pilot never takes off without a thorough pre-flight inspection, whether a model or full scale. 

Economically, there is a limit to the amount of engineering and design a factory can apply to its products and keep the price competitive.  Throughout time, it has been proven that a modeler can always improve the engineering and make the product better, at least to his/her satisfaction.

[grumpy]

The best connection I have seen is on the Athern Challenger 2-6-6-2. The drawbar snaps into a pocket in the tender. It would take an extremely strong pull to separate the two.
Don

[rowdyjoe]

     I've been involved in this hobby since May this year and was not aware of the defects that some locomoitves come with from the mfg.  I expected to pay my money and throw them on the rails and have it run for at least a year providiing regular preventive maint. is performed.  Looks like I expected too much in the case of Bachman steam locomotives.
     Now, I'm a bit more experienced and a tiny bit wiser and will perform the inspection that you describe.  I have some mechanical skill but, I wouldn't call myself a craftsman.  I'm a "remove and replace" kind of guy.  I do very little parts fabricating or repairing.  I can make a decent solder joint as I've had training and experience at it but, these tiny wires are a challenge even with a quality soldering staation, small tip, and small solder.
I just performed a baisc "field strip" of a Proto 2000 FA1 unit to find and  repair a short circuit.  I found one broken wire and resoldered it but, that didn't seem to fix the short.  I sprayed the heck out of the contacts, motor brushes, etc. with electrosolve and tested it and found that the probelm was gone.  I lubricated all moving parts and reassembled the loco and ran it with the "B" unit for at least an hour this evening. 
     I shouldn't complain too loudly because I bought this locomotvie at a very good price on-line.  However, I didn't expect it have poor quality parts and require early repair.  It is, after all, one of Bachman's "top of the lline" locos. 
     I'm not asking Bachman to make custom modifications to my locomotive, I'm asking them to improve two important parts on this product.  Yampa Bob has given "us" the "fix" for protecting the fragile wires but, the issue of the unprotected and fragile "wipers" is still there.  Will I have to return it for repair again in 2 months?  I certainly hope not BUT, I will if that's what it takes to keep it running.  I LIKE this locomotive and want to keep it in serviceable condition for a long time.  I'd also like to run it on my layout often ... like everyday for an hour or more.  If it won't stand up to that, I won't be buying Bachman products anymoe.

RJ 

[Pacific Northern]

If one takes the time to search this forum it is evident that Bachmann is aware of these deficiencies.  Members of this forum have in the past referred many times to the problems.

The problems users/customers have had relating to the electrical plug in, the post an bar issue as well as the problem with the wipers is documented.

Some of the problems such as the post and bar and electrical leads can be cured by repositioning the electrical leads and by bending the bar in some instances and of course the use of tubing to keep the post from separating from the bar.

I am confident that Bachmann will address/correct these deficiencies in due time.  As an owner of a number of Spectrum steam engines I at least have a warranty that will ensure my engines are replaced/repaired as required.  Yes, there is a cost involved but given the overall quality of the Spectrum steam engines and their price in relation to competitive brands I am very satisfied with the Spectrum engines.

I have over two dozen Spectrum Steamers and have had problems with a couple. On the other hand I have several Proto steamers and essentially have had problems with ALL of them in respect to running/quality issues that could not be resolved.  I would also note that the street price for the Proto Heritage steam engines is about double that of a Spectrum steam engine.

[Yampa Bob]

I wouldn't call these issues "defects" exactly, perhaps "under engineered" might be more appropriate.

As PN mentioned, Bachmann is aware of the complaints from this forum, but remember we represent only a tiny fraction of all modelers.  Any consideration of making upgrades has to be based on the number of complaints overall.  How many complaints?  Perhaps thousands, or the factory might be prompted if sales for a particular product were on the decline. 

Are we all willing to pay an extra $10-$20 or more to cover the factory cost of re-tooling just to correct a couple minor problems?  I'm not, especially when the fixes are so simple. 

However, Bachmann did make a major design change in the wipers on the Connies a few years ago.  On the original version, you had to remove the entire bottom/wiper assembly as one unit, which caused a lot of damaged wipers by unsuspecting or inexperienced modelers.  Now you simply remove a cover plate for access to lubricate the drive gears, without disturbing the wipers.   

So don't despair, if enough people complain about the wiper issue you mention, I'm sure Bachmann will eventually take heed and make necessary corrections. 

[Atlantic Central]

Like Bob says, not really "defects", the locos do work, defect implies that they don't.

Since so many are harping on this, I will repeat some of my comments.

I do not consider any of the wipers defective or inadequate. Never had a operational problem. I have had a few that needed adjustment out of the box, which I believe was just poor handling during packing.

As for the wires, they can effect operation if not carefully positioned, and, I do ajust/modifiy drawbars and add weight to tenders in addition to careful positioning of the wires when placing locos on the the track. Adding weight to tenders is necessary not just because of the wires, but because I pull (and push) long trains.

Again, at the risk of offending a few, these are not toys, they are delicate operating scale models. If you want toys, dig deeper in your your pocket and buy Marklin, it lives up to the "plug and play" ideal.

As for keeping drawbars connected, I really don't get that one. while I do modify somedraw bars for better wire clearance, I always disliked the old fixed drawbars used by Mantua and others. I have never had a drawbar come uncoupled unless a loco derailed.

In the recent Kadee news letter, "Sam the Answer Man" just recently commented on the lack of basic modeling skills by many new people today that contact him for info on installing Kadee couplers - and most importantly the seeming lack of interest by many in learning these skills.

This has been discussed on here at great length in the past as well. I will say plainly that the "plug and play" mentality has been a direct cause for me personally to offer less advice on this board than I have in the past.

I have been building model trains since the young age of 11 some 40 years ago and have willingly offered my experiance to others, but recently many new people to the hobby (new people of all ages) don't want to learn how to "do" anything, they just want to take it out of the box and play. Again to them I suggest Marklin, it's designed for exactly that.

To the orginal poster of this thread I have a simple message, one Bob has stated as well - at the current street price of Bachmann Spectrum locos (and other brands as well), they represent an extremely good value compared to days gone by in this hobby. I don't want them made "better" (read more toylike and industructable) at a higher cost or a loss of detail and "fineness".

Since I have said this much, I will add one more thing, which I have said on here before. None of the other (mostly higher priced) brands are without problems similar to the ones mentioned in this post.

A few examples:

PCM Reading T-1 - I had to grind the front edge of the tender frame to allow the drawbar proper swing in the close position and had to add weight in the empty smoke box (left empty for a future smoke unit - how silly) to get it to track correctly.

Athearn 2-8-2 - completely disassembed and rewired and weighted for balance and pulling power.

Proto FA - Added weight for proper balance and replaced defective wheelsets with free replacements from manufacturer.

Proto GP7 - same wheel set issue.

BLI 2-6-6-4 N&W class A - disassembed tender and repositioned wires as too much wire was sicking out of tender from factory. Reworked pilot to intall working front coupler that did not stick out too far. Purchased extra tender from BLI and wired for DC only operation as orginal DCC dual mode operation was not acceptable/compatable with my control system.

And I could go on and on.....

Sheldon

[Yampa Bob]

Like Sheldon, the longer I remain on this board, the less I am inclined to comment on these issues. 

Anyone can learn basic modeling skills if they have the desire. Crafting is crafting, trains is just another medium.  Some say to me "Well, Bob, I don't have your modeling skills". Vince Lombardi once told me "There's no patent on brains, we all have one."

For those willing and eager to learn the skills, I will bend over backwards to help them. I have already devoted hundreds of hours writing tutorials for this forum. Others can either learn from them or ignore them, it's their choice.

Some modelers on this forum are severely disabled, but they continue to build and craft to the best of their ability. So if you still have 2 good eyes and 2 good hands, learn to use them.

If someone doesn't like Bachmann quality, there are other options. Buy any other brand you wish, but don't expect the grass to be greener on the other side of the fence.

Yup, this is one of my "tell it like it is" days. I'll try to be nicer tomorrow.   

[grumpy]

Bob
I know people with two good eyes who are blind.
Don

[rogertra]

I have one eye and poor sight in the other.

Does it stop me?  No, though sometimes it can be &$%^&^ frustrating.

As many of you know, I take perfectly good (and expensive) Spectrum, Genesis and P2K steam locos and take a jeweller's saw to them.  I have never sent a locomotive back for warranty work.

Like Sheldon, I fix all the problems myself, even the broken gears on my Genesis 4-6-2s and 2-8-2s. 

Bent or damaged pick wires?  Pah!  Nothing to it.  Fix 'em yourself with a pair of fine point tweasers.  Learning to be a model railroader rather than someone who plays with toy trains is what it all comes down to.

Follow Bob's advice only I'll go further, if you don't like Bachmann's quality or Athearn's quality or P2K's quality, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Jhanecker2]

Sometimes I think the current generation is cursed by the need for instant gratification without having the patience to actually learn how to actually do anything .  It's a shame that parents don't encourage children to take care of themselves and do things , instead of being waited on head and foot. When did having  mechanical  and other manual skills become unneccessary in a technically advanced civilization.

[rowdyjoe]

One time I built a house in a week with a pair of tweezers and a flat rock and I had two broken arms and a headache.   

Sheesh, you guys take the cake.  Your idea of quality went out with high-button shoes and is far below what is acceptable today.  If you want to repair your locos yourself instead of return them for warranty work, knock yourselves out.  As for me, I'll return it to the mfg. for warranty repair and when the warranty runs out, I'll fix it myself ... if needed.

Some of you more "experienced" model railroaders have been a large help to many folks new to the hobby.  However, your superiority complex really turns people off.  Perhaps it's time you passed the baton to someone who can keep their ego in check.  Thanks for the help but, since it comes with the attitude ... there's the door.  Don't let it hit you on the way out.

Frankly, I don't know why I bothered posting anything here.  I should have listened to my firends who have posted here.  They were right.  All I got in return were snide remarks made by egotistical know-it-alls who look down on folks who believe in making the mfg. responsible for the defects in their product.

Sincerely,
RJ
 

[Yampa Bob]

Joe,
Yeah, I admit to being a bit overbearing at times. It comes with old age, and I get tired of people bashing Bachmann products. It's nothing personal.

It's not a perfect world, and in life we just have to roll with what's thrown at us.  Believe me, I know. I lightened up my last post.

Have fun.

[Atlantic Central]

Joe,

A few simple thoughts:

It is rather nice of our host to even allow you to criticize their products, sorry we offended you by not agreeing with you.

In your amittedly short time in the hobby what makes you an expert on acceptable quality? Just be cause you and a few others had a problem? I know, "always the equipment, never the operator".

This is so typical these days:

Someone drives an SUV too fast with under inflated tires but it is the manufacturer's fault when it rolls over.

Someone holds up a bank and shoots the teller and the gun manufacturer is at fault.

Someone spills their coffee while driving and it is the fast food stores fault.

etc,etc,.......

I own a piano, it is not maker's fault I cannot play it. I own a table saw and I can and have built many things, the table saw did not make me able to do that.

Again, if these delicate models are not within your skill set or you have no interest in learning these skills, I suggest you try Marklin, world class plug and play toy trains of the highest quality.

I know you think this is an arrogant view, but it is no more arrogant then your assumption that your short experiance with model trains is equal to my 40 years.

If your not happy, vote with your wallet, it has always been more effective than words. There are many products out there that do not live up to my engineering standards, front wheel drive cars for example, so I don't buy them - that does not make them "defective".

Sheldon

[Jim Banner]

As one who has spent more than half a century playing with steam locomotives from N-scale up to full scale, the only ones I ever found that you could just run and run and run with no twiddling was the clunky old Lionels.  Other than them, all the other locomotives require three things - cleaning, oiling and adjusting.  Only the size of the tools change.  

In H0 I have a number of different brands of steamers and they all need regular cleaning, lubing and adjusting.  I have got in the habit of cleaning locomotive and tender pickups, then adjusting them and finally oiling them and the rest of the locomotive every time the wheels need cleaning.  As far as derailments go, every derailment gets written down then investigated and all necessary repairs made.  Sometimes it is just cleaning the wheels but other times it could be anything from reaming the trucks, replacing wheel sets, regauging wheels, adjusting couplers or kin pins, or repairing some fault in the tracks.  But derailments are never just ignored.  Some of my model railroading buddies consider these efforts as excessive but then marvel at how we can go through whole operating sessions without a single derailment and never having to push a stalled locomotive.

Joe, I am not telling you or anyone else how to run your railroad.  Just pointing out what is possible.  For me, one of the pleasures I get from my model railroad is the fact that it does run well.  In fact, rule #3 in my railway's rule book says "When a choice must be made between looking good and running well, running well will always be selected.  Running well will not be compromised for any reason."    

[rogertra]

Joe.

Perhaps I did go a bit overboard but one does get a bit fed up with constantly hearing people complaining about what are simple fixes that any so-called "model railroader" should be quite capable of fixing.

Even "Model Railroader" in it's reviews of several Bachmann Spectrum steam locos have mentioned bent or damaged pick-ups straight from the box and commented on their rather frail and exposed positions on the back of the driving wheel rims.   However, in the same reviews they have stated that this was easily fixable with careful use of fine point, tweezers.

As Sheldon said, these are delicate models and even with careful shipping and handling, and you know how often that doesn't happen, minor misalignments are bound to happen.

Sending a loco back because the pick-ups are slightly out of alignment falls under the heading of "Routine Maintenance" and should well within the skill level of any modeller.  It's not a candidate for a warranty return.

Sorry if I was a bit too hard on you.