Sound synchronization

[Mike]

Virginian- That sounds interesting... and frankly, more like I was expecting to hear about high-end type sound units. Going back to my friend's sound-equipped Spectrum, do you think it sounds like he needs to make a few adjustments? Or is there that much difference in the Spectrum locomotives and your locos? Thanks- Mike

[Jim Banner]

I do not see how 2 chuffs per rev could sound better when that is wrong.

I think that 2 chuffs per revolution is a hangover from the days when people ran their locomotives at 90 miles an hour but still wanted to hear the individual chuffs, just like they heard standing on the platform when the train pulled out of the station.  It is common in synced sound in large scale.  And personally, I don't see it being any more wrong than the chuff occuring at the wrong point in the axle rotation.  But maybe I am unduly influenced by my large scale locomotives which are hard synchronized.  If truly synchronized, there is a chuff when the main rod is fully forward, another when it is fully back, and one more at each of the half way points.**  A couple of days ago, I watched an H0 sound equipped locomotive chuffing down the track with 2 chuffs every 7/8 of a turn of the drivers.  Watching the sound go in and out of sync with the wheels was mind numbing.  But please keep in mind that this is a personal opinion and I realize that the majority of people enjoy sound in the small scales.

_{** For the purist, this is not exactly true.  Because the valves or ports normally lead the pistons by a few degrees, the chuff actually starts slightly before the quarter points.  But this is usually invisible to the naked eye unless the locomotive is moving extremely slowly.}

[Virginian]

Mike, I believe Spectrum uses QSI decoders, so all it ought to need is adjustment.
Jim, I understand what you are saying, but on my two cylindered locos the chuffs are close to perfect.  I do not know how, and hope I do not have to take apart the mechanisms anytime soon.  I did take apart one articulated to get the engines about 135 degrees out of synch, and the other came that way, therefore the furthest 'off' I can be is 22-1/2 degrees.  I have had two brass engines with sound and mechanical cams, and I don't notice a big difference.  Also, on some HO engines the wheels are not exactly at a perfect 90 degree quarter, so how good the timing was could vary depending on which side of the loco you were looking at.

[Scott S]

Contrary to Virginian's guess:

Mike, I believe Spectrum uses QSI decoders ...

The new sound-equipped Spectrum steam incorporate decoder based on Soundtraxx Tsunami, not QSI. I believe there is reason to expect the decoder can be "adjusted" - via programming of CV's - to be more synchronized, as described in morrisf's post. The relevant CVs and their values should be in the decoder documentation - which Bachmann should have included in the box.

[Virginian]

Just for clarification, I no longer believe Bachmann uses QSI decoders. 

[EMCRyCo]

I just installed a Tsunami and cam in my Bachman 4-4-0. This synchronizes the chuffing to 4 per wheel rotation.

Sountraxx sells a fiberglass sheet that includes several wheels with spokes for different locomotives (rod engines, geared engines, etc.). By cutting out the appropriate wheel and glueing it to the inside of one driver; then setting up a wiper to rub again the spokes of the wheel, the chuffing can be synchronized exactly to the rotation of the drivers.

I prefer this approach since I have never been successful in soft synchronizing the chuffing. Although one can get close to proper sync'g for a specific load (number of cars), changing the load, or running the loco by itself messes up the sync'g.

I would also like to install a cam in the Bachmann 2-8-0 (Item 84501) that has a Tsunami "Sound on Board". However, there is not a loose wire on the Tsunami board that would go to the cam. Does anyone know which pin to solder a wire so the cam feature can be implemented?

Bachmann... can you answer this question?

Didrik

[the Bach-man]

Dear Didrik,
No, but I imagine Soundtraxx will be able to.
Thanks!
the Bach-man

[Mark Damien]

I have to agree with Virginian, The QSi steam locos from BLi & Lifelike are sync'd very well. I believe this is due to QSi setting up their BEMF settings.

Bachmann Tsunami locos are not set up to sync, as mentioned in the accompanying information that comes with the loco.

To sync the Chuff rate, Tsunami recommend Optimizing the Hyperdrive, CV10,209,210 & 212, on page 44 of your manual.  You will need a DCC Control unit capable of reading the CV settings, unless you have a HUGE amount of patience.

You can then go back a couple of pages & setup the DDE.

I only have a PCM DC Master, so programming the Hyperdrive is a pain. I have had a certain amount of success with my Bachmann Tsunami Mountain. Once this is right, I'll start on the other four Bachmann Tsunami locos.

I am very happy with my Bachmann locos, & have enjoyed their reliability & smoothness & detail for many years. This is why I'll persist in getting the chuff rate sorted on the new Tsunami fitted locos, hopefully sooner than latter.

I can see how the QSi fitted locos can justify their additional cost. In time spent, adjusting my Tsunami fitted loco; it has made it more expensive than either a Bli or Life Like equivalent.

QSi should be releasing their aftermarket Quantum Revolution sound system soon, & hopefully they will do all the hard programming for this as well. If it is successful, I'll retrofit all my non-sound Bachmann’s in preference to fiddling with a new Bachmann Tsunami loco.

P.S. I run on DC & this is why I don't have a DCC Control Unit.

[EMCRyCo]

Mark,

You mention page 44 of my manual. What manual? I downloaded a manual from Soundtraxx for the normal Tsunami, but I did not get a manual for the Bachmann Psydo-nami. Page 44 of the other manual does not mention Optimizing the Hyperdrive... Therefore, there must be a different manual available.

Where did you get the manual you mention? The "Quick Start Guide" that came with the model mentions a "User's Guide" but it was not included in the box. I checked other boxes at the hobby shop and found no "User's Guide" in those boxes either. 

It would be nice if this "User's Guide" was available for download. 

Didrik

[Mark Damien]

Didrik,

The Quick Start guide, the Instruction Manual & the Technical Manual are on the disc that comes with the loco. I don't have it with me at the moment, but the info you seek is in the Tech' or Instruction Manual.

I printed of a copy of each.... So much easier to mark pages etc, & its portable.

[morrisf]

Hey Bach-man,


Perhaps it would be easy for the factory to set CV116 closer to a pretty good value than the decoder's default value.

A little experimentation with the engineering models could establish the initial factory setting. For example, on the On30 Forney, it would be CV116 = 110.


Morris