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Author Topic: Front Coupler on 4-6-0  (Read 7589 times)
Joe Zullo

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« on: May 23, 2013, 02:19:43 PM »

Here's a question for you engine bashers out there.

How can I modify the USELESS dummy coupler on the front of my fleet (4) of 4-6-0s? As they are now, the coupler is too high and too short to mate with the couplers on the rest of my B'man Big Hauler rolling stock. It makes a double header impossible!
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2013, 06:41:17 PM »

Joe,

It is not too hard to do, but takes a little patience.   I use the body mount coupler in the pocket that is found on the short 1:20.3 cars.   I remove the pilot and use plastic shims to set the coupler at the right level. I fill in the base of the plastic pilot beam and screw the coupler in place using a screw in the center
I then carefully remove just enough material from the pilot so that it just fits around the coupler pocket and reinstall it on the pilot.  


SEE POST BELOW with photos


This is the part I am talking about:

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_69_75&products_id=569
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 11:08:36 AM by Loco Bill Canelos » Logged

Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Joe Zullo

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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2013, 09:29:29 PM »

Bill,

Thanks for the info. I would like to see what it looks like, but the link you provided of your conversion is from your desktop and can not be seen by me. Do you have this picture online somewhere where I can see it?
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2013, 10:13:05 PM »

Sorry  Joe, I will get one up.
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2013, 10:48:18 PM »

Joe,


SEE NEW POST BELOW WITH PHOTOS
Sorry about that, Try this link it should get you to a folder with 14 to 16 photos not all great quality.  It should give you an Idea of how I did it.   I was going to write a how to article, but can' remember if I did or not.  There are several duplicates, I am not feeling very well so I just gave you the raw photos unedited.  One show the long pilot and another shows the short pilot.


FAILED LINK REMOVED

Let me know if this works, if not I will try again tomorrow.  Hope you will get the idea.  

Bill
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 11:10:23 AM by Loco Bill Canelos » Logged

Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Joe Zullo

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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 10:58:54 PM »

Bill,

After I signed up to dropbox, it says the folder 'Annie' does not exist.

I hope you feel better tomorrow.
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2013, 10:56:19 AM »

Joe,  

I apologize for running you around, I should have never tried to respond last night.  I feel a bit better this morning and am determined to make things work.  I should never have sent you to dropbox as I use it only for an archive.

I never did do the article I planned to do on this and the photo quality is poor on many of the photos but hopefully will give you the idea on how to do it.  Patience is needed in getting the correct height and I did temporary fittings and measured the amount need to raise or lower the coupler then added or removed some of the plastic as needed.  When OK I epoxied everything together then touched up paint as necessary.  

Hope this helps a little.  Again I am sorry for the run around.


Remove pilot

get body mount coupler in pocket


Modify coupler to allow it to be attached with a screw



cut away part of pilot beam and some of the plastic in front of the 2 screws


fill space in pilot beam and build up plastic on the pilot beam and drill hole for modified coupler box


Use razor saw and modify the pilot to fit around coupler box




Coupler and pilot are mounted in place note filler in space between pilot beam and the two screws


close up of modified coupler on short pilot


overall view


This can be done on the long pilot as well but needs to be further out to maintain clearance.

I am sure there are better ways to do it, but this is what I did.

Bill
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 11:03:13 AM by Loco Bill Canelos » Logged

Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Joe Zullo

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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2013, 03:02:52 PM »

Bill,

Thanks for your efforts. I hope you are feeling better.
I have to ask, with the coupler being that far out, what is the minimum radius or diameter that this arraignment allows before it derails the car it is coupled to, or the pilot truck? It seems like it would only work on a straight track. I have 10 foot and 8 foot curves to worry about, and R1 switches.
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2013, 09:40:40 PM »

Joe thanks,definitely getting better.  My minimum diameter is 10 feet.  I have never had a pilot truck derailment due to the coupler project. I have never had a problem doubleheading on my 10 foot curves.  I have never run a long train with the locomotive running in reverse for any great distance, but I have run that way while switching without problems.  I am not sure how it would work on 8 foot.   If I am doing switching with the front of the locomotive, it also seems ok, but again I use only Aristo 10 foot wide switches.   I use 2 kinds of couplers, Bachmann and USA Trains knuckles, because they seem to mate together very well and I do not have uncoupling problems while running, unless I run over a piece of debris in the middle of the track which sometimes triggers uncoupling.  They seem to swing really well, but again I do not have any LGB R1  or other brands 8 foot track.  The body mounted coupler has a very wide swing, better than the standard Bachamnn knuckles.

You can gain a little more space by moving the coupler box back further right up to the screws and also by removing the back wall of the coupler box. 

All I can recommend at this time is to try it, I thought I had some Bachmann Set track I could try and see what happens but if I do I can't find it.

If you do go ahead with the project then let us know how it works out on the tighter curves.

Bill
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Dave

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« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2013, 07:21:44 PM »

Hi Joe, I am in the process of building a Garrett, using two 4-6-0- Bachmann Chassis, and have fitted Knuckles to the front of each chassis. You will need plenty of sideways movement which means removing enough of the cow catcher to allow for that. My minimum diameter curves are 8ft and I found that you will need to remove the centering  piece of plastic rod that is underneath the coupler shank, on both your Loco and first car that is coupled to the Loco. This allows for plenty of coupler swing, and you will need it.        I very much doubt that you can negotiate curves of less than 8ft diameter and reverse curves are definitley out unless there is a short transition straight between them, of at least 1ft.
         Cheers
            Dave
            New Zealand
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2013, 10:25:58 PM »

Joe, I went out and tested it with loco's running backwards through switches with the cars coupled to the pilot coupler, again 10 Foot Diameter curves and Aristo Wide Radius switches unmodified with original frog.  The couplers on the tenders and cars were not modified in any way.  No derailments.  I will try to video it.  I definitely feel there will be a problem with anything less than 10 foot diameter curves without some changes such as those mentioned by Dave.

The Garrett he is building will have double trouble Grin Roll Eyes Grin with the couplers on both pilots!!  At least with the tender loco's you have the ability to to snake through the switches.  With the pivot on the Garrett it makes for a stiff run through the switches. I can't wait to see photos of Dave project.   

Bill
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2013, 10:33:17 PM »

Forgot to mention it, but some of you out there must have a way you installed front couplers on 4-6-0's that is different than mine or Dave's.  I would love to see other ways of doing it!!!!!
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Barry BBT

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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2013, 06:30:52 PM »

Need to address the double-heading of 4-6-0s.  I convert all 4-6-0 pilots to an arm rather than leave them in the crescent slot.  That is mentioned to introduce the extension to the arm which proceeds forward, drops down below the cowcatcher and then upwards to finally be bent to engage the bottom of the gear box of another coupler at the proper height to engage the talgo coupler. 

The reason for this is the great arc that the pilot beam goes in, in a corner/turn.  The center of the pilot (where the coupler is) is outside of the outside rail.

The original pilot coupler location is perfect for body mounted couplers on freight cars.  Bachmann couplers can be body mounted, but usually we go for KaDees.

Barry
 
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There are no dumb questions.
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2013, 10:35:45 PM »

Rained heavy here so I made a video of the doubleheaded Annies going thru switches and crossovers to give some idea about how my method works with 10 ft diameter track.  Earlier I said it would never work, but looking at what was happening while I made the video, I am thinking it might just work for 8 foot diameter. There was a little swing left in the body mounted coupler as it went through.  The switches are Aristo wide radius switches, but are the old ones with the high flange way.  I have not yet modified them with the new frogs. There are no modifications to the cars or tender couplers.

The video is not meant to be realistic in any way and I go thru switches fairly fast in some cases just to see what would happen.   The video is just under three minutes and will give you an idea how my modification works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaKoGZwCPpc

Bill
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
GG1onFordsDTandI
Guest
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 03:22:14 AM »

The video is not meant to be realistic in any way and I go thru switches fairly fast in some cases just to see what would happen.   The video is just under three minutes and will give you an idea how my modification works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaKoGZwCPpc      -Bill
Bill, nice mod, nice video. I checked out your other YT videos too. Wow! Inspiring. If you get bored enough, I think a slow and in-depth walk-around video of your layout(s), both indoor & out, finished or not, posted in gen. discuss would be something everybody would not only enjoy, but benefit and learn from too. Wink .........................................Please? Grin
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