Multiple turnouts with DCC

[spanky30]

Hello everyone new do this, have a million questions will start here. I am building a "u" shaped layout 4X8 with a  2X6 crossover then another 4X8. The first 4X8 is a town setting. I have the track lay ed out in this area. The 2X6 will lead over to a good size Yard with a continuous loop around.

  My question I have ez command Dcc I have bought all DCC turnouts 5 in the first 4X8 alone not sure how many will be in the rail yard 5 more 7 ??  but how do I control all these turnouts with one DCC unit...... two, Can you hook them up in parallel ?    thanking you in advance Spanky

[Doneldon]

spanky -

You can't connect turnouts in series or parallel because they need separate controls.  This means separate wiring to each turnout. 

You can throw more than one turnout with a single electrical switch but it's best to use a capacitive discharge unit to do so.  This will keep you from burning out the contacts in your electrical switch or, worse, burning out the solenoids in your turnouts.  These are easy to do and you only need one per layout, unless it's a monster layout like a large club might have.  Turnouts that should be thrown at the same time, like in a crossover, are wired in parallel.  Circuitron has a CD system ready to install (easy) or you can get simple plans and/or a kit from talking electronics in Australia:

http://talkingelectronics.com/

They have great service and good prices.  You can have the merchandise within a week.

I must say, your layout plans sound a bit overly ambitious for a first timer.  Everyone runs into problems and hassles on a model railroad at one time or another.  These can be discouraging as well as frustrating.  A newer model rail might be expected to have relatively more of these situations than someone who has been doing it for a while so having what is a pretty good size layout for a sole modeler could cause enough problems that one feels defeated and leaves the hobby all together.  You can maybe head this off by starting just with a 4x8 and then expanding after you've had some success and have learned about railroading.

At any rate, welcome to the hobby.  I hope it's as much fun for you as it has been for me.  (Be careful, though.  That's an awful lot of fun for just one person to handle.)
                                                                                                    --D

[Kris Everett]

i think what he wants know if he can run the DCC controls in parallel
the answer is yes



where it says "TO TRACK" on one of your DCC's
plug the black wire that came with to that then
the other end of that wire
plug it in to where it says "FROM DC CONTROLLER" on the second one
Then from there on the second contoler
plug the red power cable that came with the set in to "TO TRACK"

ON THE SECOND ONE YOU CAN RUN 10 SWICHES AND ONE THE FIRST ONE YOU CAN RUN 9.





TB16

[ABC]

I don't know what your suggesting, but you cannot connect multiple E-Z Command Systems together. If you do you will likely cause damage your systems.

[Jim Banner]

My question I have ez command Dcc I have bought all DCC turnouts 5 in the first 4X8 alone not sure how many will be in the rail yard 5 more 7 ??  but how do I control all these turnouts with one DCC unit...

... two, Can you hook them up in parallel ?

^{underlining added}

I see that as two questions.

Answer 1 - You cannot individually control that many turnouts with an E-Z Command.  There are other DCC systems that can.

Answer 2 - It all depends what you mean by "them" in your second question.  If you are talking about E-Z Commanders, then the answer is NO.  If you are talking about DCC turnouts, then the answer is YES.  In fact, all your DCC turnouts are already connected in parallel to the Command station via the track.  I suspect that what you really wanted to know was whether you could operate two or more DCC turnouts together.  Again the answer is yes.  Just program the ones you want to operate together to the same address.

I have strong reservations about plugging the DCC output of one E-Z Commander into the dc control input of another.  First off, that input is expecting both a dc signal voltage input and a power input.  That is why is uses a three contact plug.  The output of the first E-Z Commander has no separate power connection.  This will leave the second E-Z Commander without power.  Even if that could work, the addresses sent by the first E-Z Commander would just duplicate the addresses of the second E-Z Commander, not add to them.  And of course connecting the outputs of the E-Z Commanders together is also a no-no, just as it is with any DCC system.  If you have lots of spare change, you might buy a second E-Z Command and try these connections out for yourself but I suspect you will destroy one or both of them in the process.  I also suspect that the warranties on the E-Z Commands would not cover damage from this abuse.

That still leaves you looking for a solution.  Here are some suggestions:
(1) Upgrade to a Dynamis or other system that can handle all the turnouts you want to install now and well into the future.
(2) Trade in your DCC turnouts on conventional dc turnouts, as suggested by Doneldon.  They work just fine with DCC track power but you wire them to a separate control system that is completely independent of DCC.  If at some future time you upgrade your DCC system and still want DCC turnouts, you can easily add stationary decoders to conventional turnouts.
(3) As a last resort, program some of the turnouts to throw at the same time (i.e. program them to the same addresses.)

Bottom line, it sounds like your layout has already outgrown you E-Z Command but consider alternatives before replacing it.  At this point in the life of your layout, you probably need the money for other things.

added  As Joe 323 has said in another post, there is no need to replace the DCC turnouts you are already using.  You could use dc type turnouts for the additional ones and upgrade them to DCC later.

Jim  

[Kris Everett]

ok so what about this then what about the cat5 connection on the back

you should be able to use to add to the addersses you already have that y they make item number *44908* as far as i can tell

[Kris Everett]

Trade in your DCC turnouts on conventional dc turnouts, as suggested by Doneldon.  They work just fine with DCC track power but you wire them to a separate control system that is completely independent of DCC.  If at some future time you upgrade your DCC system and still want DCC turnouts, you can easily add stationary decoders to conventional turnouts.



how would you do that i understand that you have to buy decoders but how would you get them to get read by the commander?

[Joe323]

Trade in your DCC turnouts on conventional dc turnouts, as suggested by Doneldon.  They work just fine with DCC track power but you wire them to a separate control system that is completely independent of DCC.  If at some future time you upgrade your DCC system and still want DCC turnouts, you can easily add stationary decoders to conventional turnouts.



how would you do that i understand that you have to buy decoders but how would you get them to get read by the commander?

Trainboy You could not with EZ Command but if he upgraded to Dynamis or MRC Prodigy or NCE he could easily add them as these advanced systems can handle many more address then the 10 that EZ Comand does. 

Personally I just opted to wire my 8 analog turnouts to a separate  old MRC power pack I had lying around though a large terminal block from the AC terminals.  Since my layout is small to medium in size I saw no advantage except for maybe less wires underneath to replacing my existing turnouts with DCC.   Plus I spent no extra money to do this.

[Kris Everett]

i under stand that but in stead of buying new DCC turn outs how would u connect a DCC decoder to them to make them DCC compatible.

because after a little while it would be infeasible to wire every single one of them

[Jim Banner]

i under stand that but in stead of buying new DCC turn outs how would u connect a DCC decoder to them to make them DCC compatible.

because after a little while it would be infeasible to wire every single one of them

Excellent question.  The easiest way is to use stationary decoders, such as the Digitrax DS64.  This unit will control 4 turnouts of just about any kind at a cost of about $13 per turnout.  That is comparable to the difference in cost between dc and DCC turnouts.  These units can be added to just about any layout that has electrically controlled turnouts.  If you use pneumatic turnout control, or manual control, you will have to add switch motors which will bring the price per turnout somewhat higher than buying the turnouts with motors already attached or built in.  The upside of having to add turnout motors is that you get to pick the type - dual coil, stall motor, unipolar, bipolar, etc.  The upside of using add on stationary decoders like the DS64 is that every dual coil machine has its own capacitor discharge machine with programmable pulse width.  Another advantage is that you can use a separate DCC bus for the stationary decoders which becomes increasingly important as your layout grows.  Have a look at the manual for the DS64, accessable from the link below.  I think you will be amazed at the possibilities.
http://www.digitrax.com/prd_statdec_ds64.php

If $15 per turnout is a little rich for your blood, how about $6 per turnout.  It is possible to use mobile decoder function outputs to control turnouts but you will have to wire up some adapter circuits.  In the very simplest case, this circuit consists of one resistor.  For dual coil switch machines, you need a couple of transistors, a couple of capacitors, and two or three resistors.  The components cost about $1, leaving $5 per turnout for a decoder.  Digitrax TF4 decoders are available for about $18 and can handle 4 turnouts each.  Still too much?  Perhaps you or a friend has some dead decoders where the motor function has died but the accessory outputs are still good.  Now we are down around $1 per turnout.

I am not sure why you feel it would be unfeasible to wire every single switch motor on a layout.  Lots of layouts have more than 100 turnouts, all wired.  With that kind of numbers of turnouts, you can guess that the layout is larger than a sheet of plywood and probably has multiple control panels.  There are probably also a number of those turnouts that can be operated from multiple locations.  Personally, I like walk around control with the operators throwing their own switches so mostly I use manual turnouts.  The only down side of manual turnouts (and conventional dc ones) is that they do not lend themselves readily to automatic, computer based control.  As I see it, both DCC turnout control and conventional dc control with those slide and push switches both have the same problem - trying to remember which number or button controls which turnout and which way it throws it.  If you must have electrically controlled turnouts, then in my opinion there are only two ways on controlling them on a medium to large layout designed to be run by multiple engineers.  They are to use push buttons on control panels showing maps of the controlled sections, and/or pairs of pushbuttons located right at the turnouts.  Other opinions may differ.

Jim

[Kris Everett]

im going to run my layout by my self  im having trouble just remembering to throw the switches when needed my brain hurts all ready

 The easiest way is to use stationary decoders, such as the Digitrax DS64.  This unit will control 4 turnouts of just about any kind at a cost of about $13 per turnout.  

so one unit will control 4 seprate switches, right?
so will it be on on DCC address or 4 seprate addresses?


TB16

[Doneldon]

TB16 -

Each turnout will have its own DCC address except for cases where turnouts need to be thrown at the same time.  The most likely circumstances for that are crossovers and routings through yards.

                                                                              -- D

[Kris Everett]

yes i under stand that

ok so my next question

i have 4 tunouts
which includes

3 cross overs and 1 WYE
so that would be 7 controlers would i have to buy 2 of those decoders?

if so thats 120.00 way to much. 'right now'


oh in other notes

the Dynamsis system

is only 199.99 at train world. same item numbers as the bachmann cat.

[Jim Banner]

You would need only one of them.  If you wire both turnouts of a crossover together, you can run them together off one of the four sections on the DS64.  The thing with crossovers is that they are never used with one set for the straight through route and the other set for the divergent route.  They are always either both straight or both divergent.

I understand that you cannot program a DS64 with an E-Z Command but I am not sure whether or not an E-Z Command will control a DS64 once the DS64 has been programmed.

Jim

[Kris Everett]

im thinking of buying a dynamsis system when i get the money so a least ill have it and use the E-Z command for yard purposes only.

so i have to insulate the track betwwen the 2 of them but thats easy to do