How to measure car lengths

[LarryR]

Oh wonderfully smart guys of the Bachmann Forum,

Being new to this hobby, I keep reading that certain radius curves can only take certain length cars etc.  My question to you guys is do you measure the couplers also when determining the length of your locos/rolling stock?

TIA
Larry

[LarryR]

To clarify my question:
I'm about to build a Timesaver layout and I need to calculate the length of the cars so that I can lay the correct amount of track for each spur.

Do the couplers need to be included in the calculations?

[rogertra]

To clarify my question:
I'm about to build a Timesaver layout and I need to calculate the length of the cars so that I can lay the correct amount of track for each spur.

Do the couplers need to be included in the calculations?

Don't build a Timesaver!  It's a gaming track plan, not an operational track plan.  It was designed as a challenge for use during model railroader meets to see who could switch it the fastest.  The prototype would never build a such a complex puzzle.  There'd always be more than enough room for the engine and cars.  Switching this puzzle takes time, which costs money so you make the switching as easy as possible, not as needlessly complex as a Timesaver.

[LarryR]

To clarify my question:
I'm about to build a Timesaver layout and I need to calculate the length of the cars so that I can lay the correct amount of track for each spur.

Do the couplers need to be included in the calculations?

Don't build a Timesaver!  It's a gaming track plan, not an operational track plan.  It was designed as a challenge fir use during model railroader meets to see who could switch it the fastest.  The prototype would never build a such a complex puzzle.  There's always be more then enough room for the engine and cars.  Switching tales time, which costs money so you make the switching as easy as possibly, not as needlessly complex as a Timesaver.

Thanks for your input.  If not a Timesaver then what?
I only have a limited amount of space and a shelf layout seems to be the answer.  Besides, isn't the Timesaver fun?
Larry

[rogertra]

There are probably quite a few track plans designed for switching.  Unfortunately, as I never build from published plans, though I do steal ideas from them, I cannot point you in the right direction.

My first North American model railway was a 2 ft 8 foot switching layout. 

You need a runaround loop enough for four or more cars, and a track designated as the "Interchange" where the cars you are going to switch start off and where the cars you have switch end up at the end.

Add a few industries and I'd suggest you include at least one switchback.  Even though the prototype uses them far less than modellers do they make an interesting switching movement.  Just make sure that the tail end of the switchback in long enough for your switcher and a couple of cars and, if possible, that you don't have to move any cars already on the tail track to switch the cars coming off and going onto the switchback.  That's the problem the Timesaver, there's only room for one or perhaps two freight cars and locomotive during any move, completely unrealistic and it very quickly become frustrating.

Do you have access to old issues of "Model Railroader" magazine or "Model Railroad Craftsman"?  They sometimes have usefull switching track plans that are far better than the "Timesaver".  And you can always see a yard or station plan that you like and modify it to become a switching layout.

You could do worse than Google "switcher(ing) track plans" and see what come up.

Best of luck in your modelling.

[rogertra]

There are probably quite a few track plans designed for switching.  Unfortunately, as I never build from published plans, though I do steal ideas from them, I cannot point you in the right direction.

My first North American model railway was a 2 ft 8 foot switching layout. 

You need a runaround loop enough for four or more cars, and a track designated as the "Interchange" where the cars you are going to switch start off and where the cars you have switched end up at the end.  In theory, they get picked up from the Interchange and get sent off all over North America.  In practice you can remove them from the track and replace them with a new batch of cars for you next session.  Some people make the interchange a car float and that is how cars arrive and depart from your modelled section of your railroad.

Add a few industries and I'd suggest you include at least one switchback.  Even though the prototype uses them far less than modellers do they make an interesting switching movement.  Just make sure that the tail end of the switchback in long enough for your switcher and a couple of cars and, if possible, that you don't have to move any cars already on the tail track to switch the cars coming off and going onto the switchback.  That's the problem the Timesaver, there's only room for one or perhaps two freight cars and locomotive during any move, completely unrealistic and it very quickly become frustrating.

Do you have access to old issues of "Model Railroader" magazine or "Model Railroad Craftsman"?  They sometimes have usefull switching track plans that are far better than the "Timesaver".  And you can always see a yard or station plan that you like and modify it to become a switching layout.

You could do worse than Google "switcher(ing) track plans" and see what come up.

Best of luck in your modelling.

[LarryR]

Roger T.
You need a runaround loop enough for four or more cars, and a track designated as the "Interchange" where the cars you are going to switch start off and where the cars you have switch end up at the end.
-- Good input. thank you

Add a few industries and I'd suggest you include at least one switchback. 
-- I saw some impressive layouts using a switchback at Carl Arendt's Small Layout Scrapbook.

Just make sure that the tail end of the switchback in long enough for your switcher and a couple of cars and, if possible, that you don't have to move any cars already on the tail track to switch the cars coming off and going onto the switchback.  That's the problem the Timesaver, there's only room for one or perhaps two freight cars and locomotive during any move, completely unrealistic and it very quickly become frustrating.
  -- Good input

Do you have access to old issues of "Model Railroader" magazine or "Model Railroad Craftsman"?  They sometimes have usefull switching track plans that are far better than the "Timesaver".
  --  Being new to  the hobby I only have a bunch of track plan magazines

Thanks,

[jward]

the timesaver is a fun switching puzzle, like a chess game it forces you to plan your moves.

to answer your original question, count the length over the couplers when planning the tail track lengths. the whole point of the tail tracks on the timesaver is that 3 cars will not fit. 2 cars, or even 2 1/2 will. but who has half a car?

[LarryR]

Thanks to all. . .

Now I know how to  measure stock for shunting/switching puzzles.

I like the switchback idea.
Here's an Inglenook puzzle with  a switchback.   Scroll to  the  last article  on the  page.
http://carendt.morphoist.com/scrapbook/page30/index.html

I  just might try making a Timesaver with a switchback.   Just thinking about loud.  it might be fun.

Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving.
Larry

[Doneldon]

but who has half a car?

Jeff-

I have a friend who has a Smart for Two car and I'm not sure that it even qualifies as half a car, much less a whole one. What it is, is, is a short, wide casket on tiny little wheels. But I guess it goes like 600 miles on a quart of gas.
                                                                                                         -- D

[CNE Runner]

Kudos to LarryR for steering Rogertra towards Carl Arendt's website. I would not have a layout today if it weren't for Carl's (as well as many of his talented contributors) inspiration. The Monks' Island Railway is really two switching problems: Molena Point being one and Sweet Haven being the other. Both of these plans were 'garnered' from Carl's website.

Those of you, lucky enough to have an entire basement or room need not read further. In the South, basements are a rare breed indeed. Attics are [usually] filled with wood (as in trusses) and are too hot to use for model railroad purposes. That leaves the 'living area' of the home. Perhaps you are lucky enough to stake a claim to an unused (or under used) bedroom...great - have at it! In my case I got one wall that measured 12'. Since the room is multi-use, I had to restrict my self to a narrow layout (15" at its widest). How much fun would this be if all I did was run trains back and forth?

Enter the switching 'puzzles'. In order to handle railway operation, I have to really exercise the old 'gray cells'. I run trains everyday...and still enjoy it after 3 years. Trust me: I can keep the best of you occupied for at least an hour (or more) with just one 'problem'.

In summary Rogertra, don't discount the value/fun of mini layouts and switching puzzles. Just the design and construction of either a sector plate or transverser (transfer table) will stimulate your creative juices.

As far as the SmartCar For-Two...it is a great ride. Take one for a drive and you will be amazed at the amount of leg room it has. Mercedes is losing money like crazy because the American market hasn't 'boomed' like it thought it would. One of the reasons could be that the For-Two doesn't get stellar gas mileage (43 mpg I think...several other larger vehicles get near, or greater, efficiency) and that is because Mercedes won't import the diesel version of this vehicle (read: can't sell them in California). Don't like the For-Two? Try taking the Fiat 500 our for a spin...'brings a smile instantly. [PS: I don't own either of these vehicles, 'have driven both, and am a retired psychologist - not a car salesman.]

Regards,
Ray

[jward]

but who has half a car?

Jeff-

I have a friend who has a Smart for Two car and I'm not sure that it even qualifies as half a car, much less a whole one. What it is, is, is a short, wide casket on tiny little wheels. But I guess it goes like 600 miles on a quart of gas.
                                                                                                         -- D

you mean that screaming metal deathtrap? not smart at all if you ask me. bright side, in a wreck not enough fuel spill to bother with hazmat......my son has a larger skateboard.

[LarryR]

Ray
You're going to have to enlighten me regarding the Molena and Sweet Haven Rys.  Pics would be nice -)  If you have difficulty uploading them, email them to me and I'll upload them to my site and provide links.  lroma@r-i-b-s.com

Here are some  puzzles that I found and seriously considering building:
- Richelieu Valley Club built this Timesaver:
http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page106a/index.html#timesaver

-  Dawson Station - Inglenook (Jr) in N scale:
http://dawson-station.blogspot.com/2010/05/shunting-puzzles-on-line.html

-  Little Bazeley - Inglenook in 00 scale
http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/Bazeley/LittleBazeley.html

And when I grow up, I'll have a 2' x 10' something like this:
http://www.palizbay.com/layout.asp

Happy Thanksgiving
Larry

[CNE Runner]

Hi Larry - You can use the 'search' function of this forum to find postings I have made on the Monks' Island Railway. The original plan was one of 30 entered for Carl's Trackmobile layout contest. The original was never built; but was intended to be constructed with handlaid track and turnouts. I decided to build the darn thing with Peco track components. Carl Arendt, and I, had frequent e-mail and telephone conversations about my progress and the article I was writing for the website. Unfortunately Carl died before I finished the article. The original layout can be viewed at: http://www.carendt.us/contest/vote/index.html

Please understand the original Monks' Island became half of the present layout and is now considered the Molena Point yard (Molena Point is the setting for one of my favorite series of murder-mystery book by Shirley Rousseau Murphy). It is Molena Point that has the car ferry, brewery, and transfer tables.

The other end (newer) of the layout [Sweet Haven] was copied/modified from another layout from Carl's website...Mill Street. This particular layout can be seen at: http://www.carendt.us/scrapbook/page70/index.html Again, this has been heavily modified and was only used as a basis for beginning the design.

That is the beauty of Carl's website...fodder for the imagination. Oh, stay away from Jack Trollope as he is a seemingly endless supply of mini layout ideas and will only get you in trouble. [Jack, if you are reading this - I think you are the best!]

Larry (or anyone else) if you want specific information email me at the address on the forum.

Regards,
Ray

PS: I had to modify this post because I couldn't get it to take two URLs...'kept erasing.

[CNE Runner]

Larry - Check out the first 2 layouts on this webpage:

http://www.carendt.us/microplans/index.html

The Lesana Yard would be a great mini layout that would test your construction and design skills. I am in the process of building the second one on the page called the Box Street Yard (careful...this is one of the many Jack Trollop designs). Currently I have the benchwork just about completed. It is made of 2 units (29"x8" each) that can be joined for operation,or display, at train shows. All the track will be Peco with Electrofrog turnouts (there are 2: a #4ish, and a double-slip). The sector plate is removeable and provides a convenient staging (or fiddle) yard (although my design allows the use of Peco Loco-Lifters as cassettes in addition to the sector plate). My only [major] question now is; "Will it be HOn30 or HO?" Ah...decisions, decisions.

'Just trying to get your creative juices flowing,
Ray