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Author Topic: ON30 K-27 & C-19  (Read 20304 times)
Mark Damien
STEAM'S the DREAM


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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2012, 04:45:25 PM »

Dear All,

Most of you probably know this, so apologies.

You just can't click a button to do an easy re-scale when the drawing's prototype gauge (36") is different than the track's prototype gauge ( 30").

You would have to re-draw to either a different scale (1:55 instead of O = 1:48) to remain correctly proportioned, or wreck the proportion (length or height vs width) by narrowing the engine width and wheel gauge to 30".

It's all a compromise...

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik


Luckily MMI simply put a set of 30" gauge wheels under their On3 [36" gauge] loco to solve the problem. Like you said, it's a compromise. The puritans scoff at this practice, but if the manufacturers are to survive, they have to please everyone. otherwise they'll be no locos for anyone.
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Even if the prototypes never existed, someone would have created Model Trains anyway.
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Mark
az2rail


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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2012, 08:03:39 PM »

Well, that is all the real railroad did. The engine is the same size in standard gauge as it is in narrow gauge

Bruce
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If your parents never had children, chances are you won't either.
ebtbob


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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2012, 09:01:12 AM »

Mark,

     You are correct as to MMI putting On30 wheel size under the same body as the On3 version of the K27.    I have two of the On30 K27s and can tell you that I have seen both versions side by side and without turning the engines upside down you cannot tell which is which.   Realize,   the difference between the two is a 1/16 of an inch on either side of frame.
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Bob Rule, Jr.
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drgw268

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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2012, 12:11:37 PM »

Unfortunately, MMI/Precision Scale does not list any On30 products on their website.  It's unlikely these items will return, as demand plummeted as the price steadily increased.  Dealers are selling old stock or things acquired in trades/purchases with collectors.

Bachmann could do better with these, as they would be able to make more compromises to allow for operation on smaller track radiuses.  Heck, they could scale the entire engine down about 80% to make it match their rolling stock better.  Just call it a mikado, leave off the "K27" designation, and give it a couple different pilot/stack/cab options for people who might want to "un-rio grande" it.
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Skarloey Railway

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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2012, 02:42:04 PM »

Bachmann could do better ... as they would be able to make more compromises to allow for operation on smaller track radiuses.  Heck, they could scale the entire engine down about 80% to make it match their rolling stock better.  Just call it a mikado, leave off the "K27" designation, and give it a couple different pilot/stack/cab options for people who might want to "un-rio grande" it.

Why take a K27 and shrink it by 80% when you can take a smaller mike and make it accurate?
And we need accurate rolling stock rather than inaccurate locos.
But as this began with the MMI 4-4-0s I 'd point out that while it is relatively straightforward to offer different gauges with an o/s frame design (as many loco builders did) it is rather harder when the wheels sit snugly either side of the firebox. Narrow the gauge on such a loco and you have to narrow the firebox, which then has implications for the boiler.
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Ken Clark

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« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2012, 03:06:33 PM »



   For a smaller OF Mikado consider the Balwin 2-8-2s built for Patagonia SN 55429-55453, a few are still in service on the Esquel Line.
     For a IF 4-6-0 Baldwin SN 40871 & 40872 Built for the Este de Minas in Brazil
     And for Super Power Mitsubishi IF 2-10-2 (20 Built) a few rebuilt for service in Argentina, films of them with a 60 car coal drag are impressive!.

   Ken Clark
     GWN
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Skarloey Railway

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« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2012, 04:27:30 PM »



   For a smaller OF Mikado consider the Balwin 2-8-2s built for Patagonia SN 55429-55453, a few are still in service on the Esquel Line.
     For a IF 4-6-0 Baldwin SN 40871 & 40872 Built for the Este de Minas in Brazil
     And for Super Power Mitsubishi IF 2-10-2 (20 Built) a few rebuilt for service in Argentina, films of them with a 60 car coal drag are impressive!.

   Ken Clark
     GWN

I like them http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=57173 They'd be a big brother to the connie
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Mark Damien
STEAM'S the DREAM


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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2012, 02:42:53 AM »

Mark,
the difference between the two is a 1/16 of an inch on either side of frame.

G'day Bob,

Are you saying the MMI ON3 K-27 is actually different from the ON30? or the difference would only be 1/16" [x2] if it was scaled down to ON30?  I only have ON30 & have never seen the ON3 version in the flesh.
I'd love to do ON3, but they're just to expensive [limited runs / brass etc]

Cheers.
Mark
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Even if the prototypes never existed, someone would have created Model Trains anyway.
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Steams the Dream
Cheers.
Mark
Mark Damien
STEAM'S the DREAM


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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2012, 03:36:48 AM »


Why take a K27 and shrink it by 80% when you can take a smaller mike and make it accurate?


I agree, why scale down anything, ON30 is O scale; 1:48. So make a 1:48 ON30 k-27 & a smaller mikado as well.

The beauty of the ON30 compromise is it can use O scale locos from 24", 30" & 36" gauge prototypes.
The puritans will not like it; and I respect the strength of their convictions, but I like variety.

Cheers
Mark
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Even if the prototypes never existed, someone would have created Model Trains anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Steams the Dream
Cheers.
Mark
Skarloey Railway

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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2012, 11:04:45 AM »

Mark,
the difference between the two is a 1/16 of an inch on either side of frame.

G'day Bob,

Are you saying the MMI ON3 K-27 is actually different from the ON30? or the difference would only be 1/16" [x2] if it was scaled down to ON30?  I only have ON30 & have never seen the ON3 version in the flesh.
I'd love to do ON3, but they're just to expensive [limited runs / brass etc]

Cheers.
Mark

I would assume on a K27 the only difference between the On3 and the On2.5 versions is the wheelsets.  As there's no inside valve gear or other physical obstruction between the backs of the wheels then there are no other compromises needed. The same applies for most o/s framed locos where the firebox/ashpan is behind or above the last set of drivers and there's no inside valve gear. I/s framed locos are a completely different proposition as the frames and centreline of the cylinders must be narrowed to compensate for the narrower gauge. But it must be do-able, as proven by Bachmann's 2-6-0.
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ryeguyisme

Heavy Mountain Steam


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« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2012, 02:25:44 PM »

Sign me up for a couple K-27's especially K-36, and K-37's I much prefer those, it would give me a good enough excuse to get back into O 2-rail again, that Brass M-75 at my local dealer is just calling my name even though its price tag is enough to make me think twice
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Tomcat

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« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2012, 04:33:24 PM »

Folks, in fact no need for a scaling down of a Mudhen. In fact you would not be able to notice the difference to a On3 gauged model. The outside frame and rest of the model would hide this good enough to have a accurate appeal of the K-27.

Ok, thatīs right - itīs not that "just easy and straightforward job" to scale down the Fn3 model of the Mudhen (which is brilliant, thanks Bachmann for making it...) but a Mudhen with a good running gear would be able to elminate most lack of proper tracklaying if constructed the way the outstanding Fn3 model is.

Bachmann has shown several times how to make it right. And the new C-19 is another statement of the Bachmann folksī artistry. So, why not making a K-27. MMI is not likely to reproduce them and Iīm sure that a lot of folks out there would go for a D&RGW K-27 plus the two RGS versions inculding the 455 after wreck as built in Fn3 too. Especially the 455 after wreck would probably sell extremely well...

Cheers, Tom Wink Wink Wink
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Royce Wilson

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« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2012, 05:15:43 PM »

Amen to that Tom cat! and follow them up with a RGS/C&S 74 and possibly RGS 20.

Royce Cheesy
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ryeguyisme

Heavy Mountain Steam


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« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2012, 05:45:15 PM »

I found it rather strange that almost the same rolling stock and engine in G scale bachmann has done is in On30 and there hasn't been an announcement for a K-27 and they were used on the N de M (Mexico) and one went to Hawaii plus they're a milestone in steam history, they've become as famous as the daylight  and the big boy simply because they are still running to this very day.

The more I talk about it the more I want one, I still need to buy a On30 Connie and convert it to make a C-25 Cheesy
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Dusten Barefoot

Determind to get some E.T.&.W.N.C On30 models


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« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2012, 07:02:16 PM »

The 8-18c/8-18d 4-4-0/2-6-0 should come first as they have been on the list for years. The k's will have their day.

Rock On!
~Dusten
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