Double Oval - Powering track and turnouts

[NYCundrgrnd]

Good evening, and hello to all.  I returned to modeling this month. (I had an O scale Lionel as a child)

I will try to provide all revelavant info:
Regular Track = Bachmann N/S, in double loop. (inner is 18" r, outer is 22" r
2 x Bachmann terminal/rerailer sections
3 x Bachmann #6 DCC Single Crossovers (2x Left #44137, 1x Right #44138)
Bachmann EZ Command Wireless Dynamis for control and power
Attached track setup and noted terminals/rerailers location.

All Loco's purchased are DCC. (First test Loco is a Bachmann m/n 62105, Union Pac #6900, DD40AX)
(Another set tried/tested is DCC equiped Rapido TurboTrain. I have a Bachmann m/n 65506 E60CP AMTRAK DCC EQUIPPED on order, due to arrive Friday (01/17/14)
____________________________________________________________

I attached power to the outermost track terminal/rerailer.

Questions:
1.  Totally confused by differing included addressing directions on the #6 Crossovers vs.  Dynamis manual
2.  Does the Dynamis supply enough power for all my track + the 3 crossovers?
(Ultimately, I would like to run two trains AT most at a time with current layout.)
2.  Since I haven't gotten the crossover's to work via DCC yet, what I want to know are both points thrown automatically? Or will I need to activate the crossover twice for rail change?

I am totally lost on how to program/assign the crossovers. (I will watch some youtube, in the hopes there is some info there.)



Note: On running a double loop (18 and 22 radii). If I leave the frogs UNPOWERED as from factory/out of box, the inner loop doesn't get power. If I connect the small cable UNDER the #6 crossover, the inner loop is powered.

[Doneldon]

NY-

I don't see a question in number one. Your Dynamis has more than enough power output for
your stated plans. I believe that both turnouts are thrown at once, either to stay on the
through routes or cross over.

Welcome back to the hobby. I predict you'll be amazed by what today's HO trains can do
compared to Lionel years ago. (It's fair to say that today's Lionel would give you quite a thrill,
too.)
             -- D

[AGSB]

I don't see anything in my Dynamis Manual about programming accessories, it talks about "operating" turnouts and accessories. Also note that there are different procedures for changing addresses with the EZ Command and the Dynamis given in the turnout operating instructions. Also you have to push a button on the turnout itself to put it into programming mode as well as using programming mode on the controller.

If you want to throw both switches at the same time, give them the same address.

[NYCundrgrnd]

Thanks for the replies. After about 2 hours of Youtube videos, I have it figured out. As a side note, a proper LCD screen not an 8bit or whatever low res currently used would make reading the screen on the Dynamis MUCH easier.

As for my issues...
1. I wasn't getting power on the inner loop when I first setup my track.  It wasn't until I powered the frogs on the crossovers (I connected the wire on all three).
2. Addressing is confusing, compounded by the low resolution screen of the Dynamis and the conflicting directions (Dynamis manual vs. accessory instructions).  In the end, after several programmed EVERYTHING to same code (that was fun to fix), I have everything set up and running, using the Dynamis as intended.  Side note to Bachmann, it would be AWESOME if you published a hard reset of the decoder procedure. I hunted the internet for HOURS looking. Possible suggestion, add a discrete pin hole button or some other clear universal  procedure, for all Bachmann loco's would be great.
3. Turnouts were tricky. The turnout manual directions are sparse to say the least. Once you have choosen the address you want for a DCC accessory, selecting hotkey doesn't do what I (aka newbie) would expect. In my mind, setting a hotkey (1-10) would be the activation for said key. Not simply bring up that particular accessory. In other words, if assigning a hotkey ---> then going to accessory function --->simply pressing assigned hotkey triggers the accessory. Rather than present method ---> enter accessory function ---> press hotkey ---> select onscreen toggle.

Thanks again for the welcome. Yes, the DCC type trains are night/day compared to my Lionel from 30 years ago! Simple tech great at single track/single train layout. But add switches, triggers, multiple trains...definitely need a DCC type system.

Again, many thanks.

[Doneldon]

NY-

Don't rely on your crossovers' frogs to power the outer loop. Over time the quality of the connections between track sections will deteriorate and that will be a problem for fussy DCC. I strongly urge you to add at least two feeders to each loop, equidistant between the pair of crossovers on the north of your diagram and the single crossover on the south. It will be much, much easier to do that now than before you have things set up permanently.

To compensate for the extra work, let me suggest a way to save a few dollars. Solder feeder wires to rail joiners or to the rails instead of purchasing expensive terminal tracks which require expensive special wires. If you solder to the rails, either use the outsides of the rails or the lowest parts of the inside surfaces so you don't interfere with the wheel flanges.
                                                                                                                                                                                 -- D

[NYCundrgrnd]

Doneldon-

Well I don't know how else to power my track.  (See picture of terminal/rerailers)


If I left the crossovers as set from factory (default) then the frogs are NOT powered and my inner track is dead.

How would I jump/extend the power to the inner track at point shown? My layout isn't permanent, it has swallowed my living room floor. lol
I live in an apartment, so track expansion will be limited.  I would like to add a sideline though off the OUTER loop. (either split somewhere at a curved section or branch out from a straight section on the side with the single #6 crossover.)

I have read/seen online, people soldering wires to their track. That would work in a permanent setup. This isn't. About half of the loops run under my raised couch. (Yes meticulously cleaned under/dusted).  When I have company, about half of the track can remain uneffected under the couch. The remaining exposed sections would be removed. (Not ideal, but I don't have a basement/huge home). But boy am I loving these trains. lol

Is there a way to bridge the center of the two terminal/rerailers, where the metal prongs are, so that power is transferred from one to the other?  On the Dynamis, I have two power feeds. #1 port is 3.5mm type plug. #2 port is a push plug with screw down holes for bare wires.

Pic 1

Pic 2

Again I'm going to be facing power...
Side note: I did "test" out all three trains simultaneously on this double oval. The Union Pac 6900 on the outer loop (doesn't like the 18" radius loop), and the Amtrak loco/2 dome cars and Amtrak/UAC TurboTrain, both running on the inner loop. I would NOT run all three like that typically.  Was to see power capability from the Dynamis.


Many thanks for your input.

NYCug

[Doneldon]

NY-

In theory, at least, you could make yourself a very short jumper using just the two plugs and the shortest piece of red wire possible to make a jumper which would allow you to bridge that short gap between the two rail lines. However, that's the expensive way to go, and probably the most work, too. You'd have to cut a whole power cord, leaving just a couple of inches of wire on each; strip the ends so you can solder them together (stagger the bare wire sections); insulate the wires with tape,  shrink tubing or liquid electrical tape; and then plug it all in. You'll end up with a wad of wire between your tracks though you can probably stuff them under the roadbed.

It might be possible to solder very short jumpers between the two facing sockets. Then you would use the regular power cord to the outer loop terminal track and it would feed the inner loop through the short soldered wires. The terminal tracks would be more or less permanently connected this way but I think it would stand up to some handling as long as you were careful with it.

Soldering wire to the rail joiners or the rails themselves is a lot less work and much less expensive. Having to take your layout apart isn't an obstacle. Just leave the soldered wires in place and either gather all of the track sections with feeders together between operating sessions or get an inexpensive terminal block and connect the various feeders to that. Then you can connect and disconnect them with a quick screwdriver.

There's no reason not to have live frogs. You have no reversing loops or electrical polarity issues with this track arrangement so it would be perfectly okay. An advantage of this arrangement is that all three crossovers would function as power connections. I'd still make sure I had at least four power feeds of any type -- terminal track, rail joiner, wire soldered to rail or crossover frogs -- for each loop. That will get you past the single worst issue with DCC, how fussy it is about any kind of power interruption. Even blink-of-an-eye interruptions will cause your sound decoders to reset and start over. You don't want your steam locomotives rolling down the track to hit a short power gap and begin their start-up routines all over when they are already in motion.
                                                                                                                                                                                 -- D

[NYCundrgrnd]

D,

My idea for the two terminals/rerailer sections...trip to radio shack to buy 4 small electrical post plugs (not the proper name, I know). They are same type of connection found under crossover frogs, just bigger. They can't be more than a few dollars. My question is...is there polarity on those pins/leads center R/L of terminals/rerailers?

I saw in one Bachmann video, during power setup, that black end was flipped 180 degrees while connecting to the rerailer. I don't remember if that was a DC setup, EZ Command or a Dynamis system.

I have seen mentioned in these forums, people suggest various power augmentations. I just don't want to cause a fire or burn out an engine motor.

As for the farthest/opposite side of my ovals, I'm ok wil buying say a used rerailer. My idea would be to connect a red wire with existing black connection to the left most pins on the left most side, run thin wire under track bed, notch the rerailer, pull small length of wire to add two more of those push connectors (from radio shack), plug in to rerailer and augment power on the opposite side of my loop.

Again my concern is if there is polarity. I suspect there is.

Question: is it posted/noted somewhere more precisely how much the Dynamis can power? I know 2.3 amps, but how many engines, length of track and # of accessories is that? What I have read is simply, "the Dynamis is sufficient for small track layouts. What is that? There must be a way to calculate available Dynamis 2.3amp output runs: x-length of track + x-number of accessories + x-number of engines.

Thx,

NYCug

[AGSB]

Get yourself a package of power terminal tracks Bachmann #44597 and put one in each loop. Wire the jumpers to each one.

[NYCundrgrnd]

AGSB,

This is the first I have heard of p/n 44597. Without having to buy it first, is there somewhere I can look to see how this would work? (I don't have a reversing loop and don't plan on ever using one).  I tried looking at a picture of this item, but I don't see any exposed pins/leads, so I'm assuming the leads are located underneath the bed.

Let me see if I understand the "possible" usage: in addition to the existing terminals/rerailers, I would add a pair of Power Terminals to each loop, say to the opposite side (farthest from the current installed rerailers).

The part I don't have information on is, how do I get power to these new terminals? Would I just run wires (underneath) the bed to transfer power between each?  (Bachmann should have a manual and/or diagram online to show how this would be used. I googled it and nothing pertaining to this item showed in the results.)

Thanks.

P.S. I reinstalled the modified red power wire I received with the Dynamis. I inserted the metal into the screw mount and plugged it into the back of the Dynamis.  Does anyone know if power is sent from both the Dynamis outputs simultaneously? (Or is it one/other type arrangement).  Note, with the additional power lead plugged into the "inner" loop termainl/rerailer, I am NOT getting a short anymore.


Thanks,

NYCug

[Doneldon]

NY-

Yes, there is polarity to think about; however, it's easy to correct if you get it wrong. Just make sure to add the new track connections one at a time and test. If you have a short, you just turn the connector over and you'll be all set.

Using feeders soldered to the rails or rail joiners won't cause any fires or burned out motors or decoders. The proof of that is that many model railroaders have used those methods for a long time. Your power supply's internal circuits will interrupt the electricity long before it creates a dangerous situation. And you should be doing the wiring without anything on the tracks until you have tested for shorts anyway.

You can power your supplementary terminals from a power buss under your layout or a central power terminal under your layout. I prefer a power buss (large diameter wire running roughly under my main tracks) to a central terminal block (hub and spoke)  design, because it lets me use much shorter feeders with small wires while only making a single connection per feeder. You can use larger feeders with a terminal block if you end them with tiny actual feeders up to the rails but that wastes a lot of larger wire and it requires a second wire "joint."

It's impossible to say how many locos or lights or whatever a given power system will operate because every unit which consumes power (motors, lights, added electrical effects) is unique. Older motors, especially open-frame motors, will invariably pull more power than a modern can motor so any two locos won't present the same demands for power. A loco pulling its train on a straight, level track will pull less than when it ascends a grade or goes around a curve. An EZ Command DCC system with a stated one-amp output (it's really more in the range of 1.25 amps) will operate (usually) two older locomotives with open-frame motors as long as demands for passenger car lights are not added. However, you might slip by if those passenger car lights are LEDs instead of incandescents because the power demands for those different light sources are very different. The same EZ Command system will operate three, maybe even four modern, can-motored locos, but not if you have sound in every one or a slew of incandescent lights. Even turning the sound up and down will change the power draw, if only minutely. Plus, some of the lights and effects might go on and off, changing the power demand in the middle of operations. For example, locomotive and/or passenger car lights may go on and off, a smoke unit may run dry and be cycled off or a loco might begin to have a need for some lubrication and therefore draw a tiny bit more current as it has a slightly greater need for internal power. Still locomotives with sound or lights will draw current as they sit on a powered siding. Decoder-equipped locos without sound will also draw some current, but less than their sound-equipped brethren. So layout number one with three silent locos with decoders and lights will draw power while the non-sound locos on layout number two will not. Power draw is even affected by how good your soldering skills are and the size of the wires you are using for your power buss and feeders. And the operation of DCC turnouts will significantly affect power draw, if only momentarily.

As you can see, we can speak only in general terms about how many trains your Dynamis, or any DCC system, will operate; any effort to give a more specific answer will be more misleading than helpful. All of that being said, your Dynamis has more power available than almost any home layout will demand. Extrapolating from the EZ Command cited above, you can probably (remember all of the variables listed above) simultaneously operate 10 locomotives with your Dynamis before you run into power trouble, unless all 10 have sound and you have three long passenger trains running with lights going at the same time.

I hope that you understand that no one is trying to be evasive when we give only general answers to your question about how many locomotives will run under Dynamis. It's impossible to give an explicit one. I hope I have been at least a little bit helpful.
                                                                                                                                                                                  -- D

[AGSB]

You don't have to supply power to these pieces of track directly. One is already powered by the track you have connected to your controller. Under the track are 4 screws, 2 for each track with a jumper between them. Leave the jumper connected as you aren't setting up a reversing loop. Connect a jumper from the outside track of the powered loop to the outside track of the unpowered loop and do the same for the inner track in each loop and you are done. Look on You Tube for Bachmann videos for a look under these tracks.

The Dynamis Users Guide lists the track connections as "either/or". The green plug-in is recommended for heavier current track draws. The round plug-in is to connect directly to a Bachmann power feed terminal/rerailer. I would not recommend using both because, if you don't match polarity, you could damage your Dynamis.

I also recommend you begin reading up on DCC wiring. A good place to start is Wiring for DCC and DCC for Beginners

[Bob_B]

Good evening, and hello to all.  I returned to modeling this month. (I had an O scale Lionel as a child)

I will try to provide all revelavant info:
Regular Track = Bachmann N/S, in double loop. (inner is 18" r, outer is 22" r
2 x Bachmann terminal/rerailer sections
3 x Bachmann #6 DCC Single Crossovers (2x Left #44137, 1x Right #44138)
Bachmann EZ Command Wireless Dynamis for control and power
Attached track setup and noted terminals/rerailers location.

I have a similar Dynamis setup to you but on a much larger scale.
26" inner and 28" outer loops connected by a left and right crossover with four turnouts in the centre for sidings.
Running four DCC locos. All of this with one standard track/rerailer connection for power and no modification to the crossovers or turnouts, they are standard out of the box.
All my track has power just with this one terminal connection!

....

Questions:
1.  Totally confused by differing included addressing directions on the #6 Crossovers vs.  Dynamis manual

The addressing instructions come with the Crossovers or any accessory for that matter.
I found them simple to follow having had no prior experience with DCC.

2.  Does the Dynamis supply enough power for all my track + the 3 crossovers?

Yes, easily.

(Ultimately, I would like to run two trains AT most at a time with current layout.)

I run four with no problems. Three of which have sound.

2.  Since I haven't gotten the crossover's to work via DCC yet, what I want to know are both points thrown automatically? Or will I need to activate the crossover twice for rail change?

Both points activate at once on the Crossover.

I am totally lost on how to program/assign the crossovers. (I will watch some youtube, in the hopes there is some info there.)

Instructions should have come with them including specific instructions for the Dynamis system. Mine did.

Note: On running a double loop (18 and 22 radii). If I leave the frogs UNPOWERED as from factory/out of box, the inner loop doesn't get power. If I connect the small cable UNDER the #6 crossover, the inner loop is powered.

I had power to all the track, inner and outer loops via two crossovers and inner sidings via four turnouts without any modification. Worked out of the box.

[NYCundrgrnd]

Thanks all for the input. I will look into the power terminals.  I so want to add another oval loop (think 00), but not sure of the power. Won't be more engines running than 3. But I will think about it. I'm running out of living room floor! lol

[Doneldon]

NY-

Your Dynamis will handle three locos with ease unless they are old ones with open-frame motors.

                                                                                                                                     -- D