What's the future of Bachmann 1:20.3 scale?

[chuckger]

Yardmaster & Bachmann,

  Would you consider doing a K27 with inboard cylinders?? This would not be as costly as a complete loco, yet it would give you a new product to bring to market with 10 to 15% mold cost assuming you can use the original molds from the K27 I would be interested in at least one with inboard cylinders to go with #455 RGS.

  Chuck

[Bucksco]

Anything is possible but there are no plans to do so at the moment. We will keep it in mind when we discuss rerunning the K-27.

[davey b]

Davey:

What do you mean a "K27 with inside cylinders"?  Do you mean a regular non-D&RGW narrow gauge mikado like used on the East Broad Top?  A K-27, 28, 36, and 37 are very specific to the Rio Grande.  They all had outside frames.

Chuck

chuck,,,,   as previously mentioned i think a k27 with inward canted cylinders would be great for the next run of
the big mikado,,, as tooling is almost done,,,

i dont think so many people would buy the early versions but it may be worth doing a limited run for collectors

but another early bogie coach that looks different to accucrafts jackson sharp would be most welcome

slightly shorter, with duckbill roof and round windows,,,, 

[armorsmith]

Davey B,

If you dig around in the 'Master Class' section on the My Large Scale forum (www.mylargescale.com) you will find an entire article on building what you are looking for.  Some of the parts are supposed to be still available from Bronson Tate.

Bob C.

[Kevin Strong]

If I recall the most recent discussion on this correctly, Bronson Tate does not have the "Masterclass" passenger car kits for sale anymore. No one does. However, the plans are available for download. All you need to do is find someone with a laser cutter and give them the files to use. There's no charge for the drawings, so long as you don't use them for commercial purposes. (i.e., don't go making kits to sell.)

I would agree that some early board-and-batten coaches with rounded windows would be a great addition to the large scale line--especially given that they'd be of the same vintage as the 4-4-0/2-6-0.

Later,

K

[tac]

If I recall the most recent discussion on this correctly, Bronson Tate does not have the "Masterclass" passenger car kits for sale anymore. No one does. However, the plans are available for download. All you need to do is find someone with a laser cutter and give them the files to use. There's no charge for the drawings, so long as you don't use them for commercial purposes. (i.e., don't go making kits to sell.)

I would agree that some early board-and-batten coaches with rounded windows would be a great addition to the large scale line--especially given that they'd be of the same vintage as the 4-4-0/2-6-0.

Later,

K

With some careful bending you could build them with the prototypical 'sway-back' that so many of them have now...

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

[Chastity]

There are actually three variants of K27 used on the D&RQW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%26RGW_K-27

The 463 and 464 are examples of piston valves outboard of cylinders.  This is the model Bachmann produced

The 456 and 458 are examples of piston valves inboard of cylinders

The 457 and 460 are examples of slide valve cylinders which were the way the K27s were shipped from Baldwin.

The Tenders for the slide valve cylinders were slope back so there would be more mold work to do to produce.  The inboard cylinder versions would only require a few different
parts and would be relatively easy to produce.

Hopefully in time the Large Scale market can improve and Bachmann will decide to produce the K27 inside cylinder versions.

Stan

I beg to differ.  The K-27s or as known Class 125s when delivered were all Vauclain compounds.  Thus actually four different versions. 

[Chastity]

For a more limited run builder like Accucraft #73 makes sense.  For a mass producer like Bachmann I am not so sure.  I have watched each run of locomotive and it seems to take quite a few years before they are sold out.

Even Accucrafts EBT took quite a bit of time in the LS edition to sell out (though admittedly a lot more expensive).

Now I will agree that a different style of Fn3 passenger car might work.  I also think that a k-27 rerun with updated electronics and slower gearing ala the C-19 would be a decent success.

I could be wrong and there is more of market for a stock Baldwin inside frame mike. 

[Chris9017]

I would really like to see re-runs of the Heisler locomotives.   They were good engines with some electrical quirks, and the drive shaft didn't rotate well without modification, but overall it had metal trucks, a metal drive line and was pretty much well ahead of its time.  It wouldn't need too much retooling, just a better drive shaft, and even more DCC ready with cooling fan and the electrical upgrades the Climax had.   It would sell pretty well for the Large Scale recession we're in, and a lot of my fellow model railroad club members, want to see Heisler re-runs.   So, Heisler re-runs should be a must.  Not much re-tooling, just drive shaft and electrical upgrades and maybe different road names.

[tac]

I would really like to see re-runs of the Heisler locomotives.   They were good engines with some electrical quirks, and the drive shaft didn't rotate well without modification, but overall it had metal trucks, a metal drive line and was pretty much well ahead of its time.  It wouldn't need too much retooling, just a better drive shaft, and even more DCC ready with cooling fan and the electrical upgrades the Climax had.   It would sell pretty well for the Large Scale recession we're in, and a lot of my fellow model railroad club members, want to see Heisler re-runs.   So, Heisler re-runs should be a must.  Not much re-tooling, just drive shaft and electrical upgrades and maybe different road names.

I agree  with you 100%.  My Heisler, to whch I've made a couple of little 'fix-it' mods to make it run smoother, is always a centre of attraction at any of our open days - but then, ANY geared loco here in yUK is a novelty, and I'm lucky enough to have all of them made by Bachmann, including three Shays [2 x 2-truck and 1 x 3 truck]. I've lettered mine to reflect our support of the Pacific Coast Scenic Railroad in Oregon.

I lucked in to my Heisler at a train show a couple of years back, and swapped out the coal for an oil bunker to make it more prototyical, even though it's a three-footer, and not standard gauge like the Oregn loco.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

[norman]

Dear Mr. Yardmaster:

The Baldwin locomotive currently at Disneyland ( Ward Kimball no. 5 ) could be modeled with components of the former 1:22.5 2-4-2 re released as a 1:20.3 2-6-0 loco.

A 1:22.5 version of the Baldwin Disneyland ( Ward Kimball no. 5 ) lettered for a non Disney railroad would sell well. Place the 1:20.3 headlamps and market the model as 1:20.3 which will then serve the two markets as the 1:22.5 group can simply replace the large 1:20.3 headlamp.

Producing locos which can handle the R1 curves may restart the large scale sales.



Hoping for a  1:22.5 version of the Baldwin Disneyland ( Ward Kimball no. 5 ,

Norman

[Bucksco]

Disney locos require licensing... no plans to do this at the moment.

[norman]

Dear Mr. Yardmaster:

This is not a Disneyland locomotive. This is a Baldwin locomotive. This is only a Disneyland locomotive if you apply Disneyland logos. Minimal investment for Bachmann to produce something really nice.

My belief is that your move to 1:20.3 scale torpedoed largescale.

1:22.5 ( actually 1:24 with the LGB rolling stock, USA Trains narrow gauge and HLW product ) was an excellent product size for both interior and outdoor layouts.

It is of course your financial investment at to what scale you chose to produce your locomotive molds in. But I really think you folks blew it. Never the less, I have purchased many 4-4-0 locos as the model could still be used with your 1:24 scale J&S coaches ( if one does not look at historical photos to view the correct size relationship as the  J&S coaches dwarfed the 4-4-0 loco )

Ok so fine, I will bash my own Baldwin Disneyland type #5 loco which is of course what the hobby is supposed to be about.

Do not misunderstand, I really appreciate what Bachmann has offered in the past. I just deeply regret Bachmann having moved away from 1:24 scale as the 1:20.3 rolling stock and the other 1:20.3 locomotives are simply too large for my uses. The 1:20.3 diesel did not sell simply because it was far too large for even the 1:20.3 scale total converts.

LGB had the correct product concept using R1 curves. Bachmann should have followed the wisdom of the LGB train founders.



Norman

[Bucksco]

Misread your first post. This sounds like an easy bash so you are headed in the right direction. Speaking of bashing there is no need to get snarky. We still produce the  Big Hauler line of Large scale products that mimic LGB pseudo scale. The reason we are not producing more Large Scale items at the moment is due to the current slump in said market. LGBs financial problems and subsequent bankruptcy probably had a much bigger effect on the Large Scale market than Bachmann diversifying it's Large Scale product line.

[JerryB]

My belief is that your move to 1:20.3 scale torpedoed largescale.

1:22.5 ( actually 1:24 with the LGB rolling stock, USA Trains narrow gauge and HLW product ) was an excellent product size for both interior and outdoor layouts.

If this were true, where are the companies producing these ". . . excellent products . . ." today? And by the way, LGB was definitely Not to Any Scale, 1:22.5, 1:24, 1:26, or otherwise, with their offerings ranging from near to 1:20, to something in the neighborhood of 1:29. Very well made toys, but most of their offerings were not and are not of much interest to scale modelers. OTH, toy train operators generally do not care about scale, so a Bachmann 1:20 offering should easily find a home with them.

<snip> I just deeply regret Bachmann having moved away from 1:24 scale as the 1:20.3 rolling stock and the other 1:20.3 locomotives are simply too large for my uses. The 1:20.3 diesel did not sell simply because it was far too large for even the 1:20.3 scale total converts.

I am a life-long model railroader & general train enthusiast. I only started purchasing LS items in quantity when the highly accurate Bachmann 1:20 scale Shay was produced. I have lots of Bachmann 1:20 scale stuff, including several 45 tonners, with one on standard gauge trucks. That locomotive pulls a couple of standard gauge cars. I'll probably convert another one to SG in the future. It is a highly accurate well detailed model of the original GE locomotive.

LGB had the correct product concept using R1 curves. Bachmann should have followed the wisdom of the LGB train founders.

Using that logic, Lionel had it right with 3 rail, 0-27 trains (my second train set at ~8 years old). It even had a whistle!

And if Bachmann had followed that wisdom, would they have gone through bankruptcy too? Would the surviving company be stuck with lots of molds and products that they have a hard time selling, with absolutely nothing new coming from them??

Norman, I really do appreciate your interest in no-scale, toy trains. That in itself is a hobby. But, the fact is that the market was demanding more to scale trains, and Bachmann (along with several other manufacturers) fulfilled that demand. As to running on R-1 curves, I actually have some R-1 curves on my RR. Engines and rolling stock are limited to four wheels in a mining scenario. I also have an LGB Unitah Mallet that will run on R-1 curves. The fact that it is of no particular scale and is seriously compromised (as a scale model) means that it is perpetually For Sale. Just not much market for those toys.