Prototype operation of headlights - was 2-8-0 Wiring Problem.

[rogertra]

Quote from: jbrock27 on October 30, 2014, 03:28:39 PM
Smiley

Got it, thank you J.  Sorry I misundertood which one you were referring to.  Yes, polarity is important to determine when you want the LED lit.

Do you steam guys usually have the headlight stay on when the loco is moving in reverse or do you set it up to go off?

This business of the headlight going on and off when the loco changes direction is purely a toy train thing perpetrated by toy train manufacturers.

Most of the times, the headlight stays on when the loco changes directions.  The rear light may come on as that is turned on and off, just like the headlight, by the engineer but if it's a back up move when still coupled to cars, the odds are the engineer will keep the back up light off as on high beam, it will reflect back from the cars he is coupled to and dazzle him and on low beam it serves no function.

Note.  Headlight rant follows: -

Yard switchers generally run with BOTH headlights on DIM.  Yard switchers do NOT (usually) run with the lights on full as that both dazzles the engineer when coupling up to cars and dazzles the guys working on the ground.  Again, model yard switchers where the lights automatically change direction with the locomotive's direction is a toy train effect.  Bachmann please note.  If your DCC switchers do this, then that is wrong and should be corrected.

Also, automatically changing lights are also a toy train effect.  The selection of which headlight is on or off or whether both headlights are on and whether the headlight or headlights are bright of dim is up to the locomotive engineer, it's not automatic and should not be automatic on scale models.  It may be acceptable on toy trains but it's not acceptable on scale models.

Headlight rant ends.

Cheers

Roger T.

[Doneldon]

Roger-

If I understand you correctly, the most prototypical use of lights on yard switchers would be steady on dim on both ends. That shouldn't be too tough to model. Just put a resistor of the size needed to reduce the light output to the desired level. That would be neat, but I believe one could make a case for directional lights even on yard switchers.

My reasoning is that this offers another opportunity to add some animation to our pikes. Even with street and structure lights and a few operating scenic items, our layouts are seriously under animated compared to the real world. Between sound locomotives and local environmental circuits, things are getting pretty good for our sound environments. But movement other than our trains is rare, despite how much people are attracted to these effects. All you have to do is watch a visitor who is delighted by a sawyer felling the same tree over and over, or some little people skating ungracefully around the mill pond. I'm probably too much of a traditionalist to have my lights changing according to which direction my trains are going, but I can understand why others might choose to do so. And I'll opine that such lighting effects will thrill children, maybe even making the experience of running trains a bit more fun for them.
                                                                                                                                  -- D

[jbrock27]

OMG!!!    To learn that I, for one, have fallen victim to the influences foisted on me by toy (Athearn, Atlas, Bachmann, Life Like (Proto Series) and Walthers) train manufacturers!  Oh the humility!

But not to despair, I still believe that it is a cool feature;)

[rogertra]

OMG!!!    To learn that I, for one, have fallen victim to the influences foisted on me by toy (Athearn, Atlas, Bachmann, Life Like (Proto Series) and Walthers) train manufacturers!  Oh the humility!

But not to despair, I still believe that it is a cool feature;)

Just because the manufactures you mention have the automatic lights doesn't make it correct.  It's still not prototypical and some of us like things as prototypical as possible.

Cheers.

Roger T.

[rogertra]

Roger-

If I understand you correctly, the most prototypical use of lights on yard switchers would be steady on dim on both ends. That shouldn't be too tough to model. Just put a resistor of the size needed to reduce the light output to the desired level. That would be neat, but I believe one could make a case for directional lights even on yard switchers.

My reasoning is that this offers another opportunity to add some animation to our pikes. Even with street and structure lights and a few operating scenic items, our layouts are seriously under animated compared to the real world. Between sound locomotives and local environmental circuits, things are getting pretty good for our sound environments. But movement other than our trains is rare, despite how much people are attracted to these effects. All you have to do is watch a visitor who is delighted by a sawyer felling the same tree over and over, or some little people skating ungracefully around the mill pond. I'm probably too much of a traditionalist to have my lights changing according to which direction my trains are going, but I can understand why others might choose to do so. And I'll opine that such lighting effects will thrill children, maybe even making the experience of running trains a bit more fun for them.
                                                                                                                                  -- D

Yes Doneldon, when operating in yard service, the headlights on both ends of the locomotive are (usually) on dim so as not to dazzle the engineer and the guys on the ground at night. Even in daylight, the headlights on both ends should be at dim.  Most rule books state this as well.  If you've ever switched at night, like I have, you'll see the reason why.    Covered under Rule 17B.

And if people don't believe me, go and watch switchers at work both in daylight and at night.

I agree with your thrilling the children comment but for scale or prototype modellers, changing headlights and setting them to bright or dim should be a manual option and controlled by the engineer, not some unrealistic piece of electronics.  We should at least have the option on DCC of automatic or manual headlight control.  I know some DCC system allow you to dim the headlight when waiting in a siding for a meet, which is a good idea as that's what the prototype does.  Also dim the headlight when approaching a station platform and various other locations.

Again, covered under Rule 17B.

In other words, DCC systems should enable Rule 17 through 17D to be enabled or not.

Cheers

Roger T.

[jbrock27]

And if people don't believe me, go and watch switchers at work both in daylight and at night.

Honestly, it's not that people don't believe you ole boy, it's that some people don't really care.  I don't.

[Doneldon]

Honestly, it's not that people don't believe you ole boy, it's that some people don't really care.  I don't.

Jim-

You've actually hit a big nail right on the head. There are as many different ways to do model railroading as there are model rails. Everybody has a unique interest in the hobby and his/her own way of pursuing it. And, although I'm sorry to have to say it, many MRs aren't especially understanding of others who do things differently.

Many of us are  especially judgmental when it comes to those who are perceived to be at the extremes. For example, how many times have you seen someone condescendingly talk about another MR who "just wants the trains to go roundy-roundy?" Or on the other end, how often has a detail-oriented or prototype modeler been disparagingly called a "rivet counter."

I try to strike a balance between keeping things as prototypical as I reasonably can in a hobby where towns are only three feet apart, and having pure fun with my trains. Sometimes the fun is just watching the grandkids run the trains roundy-roundy; at other times it's working a switching problem or setting out cars from the peddler freight. And I have no compunctions about anachronisms if I want to run the Hi-Level Devil on my late-1930s layout. It's how I do it. I'm aware that some folks would gasp that I run trains roundy-roundy, others would nearly faint upon seeing the Cap passing a freight pulled by a well-maintained Consolidation and still others would shake their heads because I sometimes build a model with every twiddle and dot exactly the right size and in exactly the right location. But I don't care. Those things are how I model.

The point of all this is that we need to look at our own biases in the hobby and take care not to impose them on others, or look down on the roundy-roundies and rivet counters. The core of model railroading, or maybe all hobbies, is having fun, learning new things and enjoying the fellowship. I've never seen judgmentalism promote any of those concepts.

As Roy Rogers would almost sing, "Happy tRAILS to you ..."
                                                                                             -- Doneldon

[rogertra]

And if people don't believe me, go and watch switchers at work both in daylight and at night.

Honestly, it's not that people don't believe you ole boy, it's that some people don't really care.  I don't.

This is true, some people just like to play trains. 

Cheers

Roger T.

[jbrock27]

Yep.

[Irbricksceo]

I would love to keep both directions on and have dimming abilities. Interestingly, it seems that function 1 (bell) dims the lights on the standard bachmann decoder. No idea how to acceivce this on the tsunamis/sound on board tsunami variant

[Trainman203]

In the steam era the headlights were rarely, if ever, lighted during the day.  Accordingly I keep mine turned off.  Most steam engine headlights , as they come from the factory, are not very realistic when lighted anyway.

The Bachmann mogul really needs a dynamo sound more than a dimmable  headlight.  Since  I never turn my headlight on it doesn't really matter much though.