Reversing Loop Wiring...

[russ daley]

Can peripherals like rail sidings be powered off the reversing loop track section or is a separate power source or disconnect required? Using Lenz LK100.   

Thanks...

[russ daley]

Never mind...actually a dumb question now that I thought about it...   

[jward]

Any sidings that are part of the loop section can be powered off the loop. Just be careful that they don't have a separate entry/exit point to the rest of the layout. If they do, you must insulate both rails where they connect to the rest of the layout.

[russ daley]

Exactly...As long as I've been model railroading, I just never gave that a thought...no wonder I was getting shorts when using auto reversers....I made the proper rail cuts but never isolated the loop...duh   

[russ daley]

I successfully wired 3 Reverse Loops in DCC using Auto Reverse Modules so I understand the simple basics....I guess? However, I am at a total standstill wiring up a Walters DCC Friendly Double Crossover. Bought mine when it was around $60.00 some years ago...I think they are $110.00 now...wow!!!!

I basically have a dogbone layout with a lot of stuff going on at each end with the crossover in the middle. For years, I just went straight through and the rest was just for show...I am confused with the word "parallel"....perhaps that is not important. I don't want to confuse the issue by explaining my failures as to what I have done, I just want to know can it be done and how to do it? In researching the web, I cannot find an absolute explanation that states I can and has supporting details like wiring diagrams, where to cut the rails...which rails to cut...etc...Can anyone help me on this?

Thanks,         

[Tenwheeler01]

Simple way would be to have the main in 3 power districts.   Loop -- straight double cross over straight -- loop   Isolate the the loops with Auto Reverse Modules or user a power distribution unit with auto reverse capability.   

If you need more details or have a layout diagram I can give suggestions on power district locations.   

Here is one of the KBs I know of where someone asked this question. https://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB532/how-do-i-wire-a-double-crossover/

[russ daley]

Thanks for reply Tenwheeler1...

I've also been thinking that there needs to be three power districts as you stated. When I first approach resolution, I made two rail cuts,(both rails) one at TL (Top Left) and one at BR (Bottom Right) both about 6" away leaving the crossover. Someone told me that's where the cuts needed to be a long time ago...I need to repair those two cuts which puts me back to no cuts. I don't want to go cutting rails again until I'm convinced I know what I'm doing...

The average length of my trains are about 48". I was thinking that I need to make 4 rail cuts (both rails) about 60" leaving the crossover in all four boundaries of the crossover...that is TL...TR...BL...BR... Then using reverse modules, (THINKING TWO...MAYBE 4) that would power the middle power district. I would tie the two outer loops together thus maintaining my main. 

But now it's how to wire the reverse modules to make this all work and that's where I'm stuck...I just confuse myself from here on out...   

Would you agree on where I would cut the rails? That's a start...

Thats's   

[jward]

Yes it can be done. How depends on exactly what we are working with. You said you have crossovers between the tracks on the "stem" of the dogbone. Are they single or double crossovers? WHat brand of track are you using?

There are basically two ways to approach this, You could, as tenwheeler has said, make the "baloons" on the ends of the dogbone seperate reversing loops and use an autoreverer on each. Or, you could make the "stem" your reversing section and use only one autoreverser. FOr me, that would be most practical if the "stem" is longer than your longest train. In etiher configuration, you would place the insulating joiners in the same spots. The main difference is where you place the autoreverser.

On my own layouts I have been able to wire the contacts of a switch motor to do the reversing for me. Whichever way the switch is lined is the way the polarity of the reversing section is also lined. As such I have never had to actually use an autoreverser. This gas the big advantage of working on both DC and DCC. 

The reason I asked about track brand, and type of crossover, is that certain brands of double crossover would need gaps cut in them for this to work. If you are not using these types you'll be fine.

I will try to work up a diagram on how to do all this to-day or to-morrow, and post it here. In the meantime, here is the basic idea as applied to a single track loop using Atlas switches and a Snap Relay.

[russ daley]

Thanks Jeff...Sorry, I thought I supplied that information.

Using a Shinohara/Walthers Double Crossover, DCC Friendly, Walther Part No. 948-83051. My notes date back to 2008 so that's when I purchased it. I think I read somewhere that changes were made to the crossover since then, don't know what changed. Using Lenz LK100 Auto Reversers, HO Scale, Code 83, DCC.     

Currently, crossover is not totally isolated from Main Bus. Crossover is located in the middle of the two ends of the dogbone. I have plenty of track on both sides of the crossover to cover my longest train, and then some.

As tenwheeler suggested, I ordered enough wire to make the crossover/reversing plan a separate power district. Even with adding new cuts in the track and creating a new power district I can't be any worse off than I am now. As stated, I was thinking that I need to make 4 rail cuts (both rails) about 60" leaving the crossover in all four boundaries of the crossover...that is TL...TR...BL...BR... But I'm still stuck on the wiring...

With no golf Wednesday, I was going to confirm if any gaps are needed in crossover...that is, if I know what I'm doing. Thanks for your input and await your post. 
 
 
 

[Tenwheeler01]

I drew up a quick diagram.  But do not have away post the diagram.   So I will try to describe it.

 

 top of loop===cut======\=/======cut====top of loop
bottom of loop==cut=====/=\======cut====bottom loop 

wiring would be something like this.

f--Loop BUS--AR--Main bus--f--f--CS---f--f--AR--loop bus--f

left loop bus A and B in Auto revs to Track...main bus A and B into Auto revs... feeds from main bus to all 4 lines coming off DB crossover...Command station connected to main bus...Right loop Auto revs.. track out to right loop bus.

So each loop is district controlled by an auto reverse and the district with the double crossover is off the main bus.   

May current HO layout is one for the King size layout book the Berkshire valley route.  It has a reverse section around 5' long I ran a short bus with 2 feeds this district is controlled by and AR1 Auto-Reverser.   

I got crazy and connected my layout to a PC and used JMRI to WIFI control my turnouts.  Next up is block detection.     

[russ daley]

So much appreciated TenWheeler but I remain confused. I understand making rail cuts and how to establish power districts...that makes sense. Appears that two Auto Reservers are needed...I can cover that. Each auto reverser has 4 connections...that's 8 total connections. 4 of those connections must connect to the main bus which is outside the cuts...and 4 connections are within the cuts...but where to connect...Am I missing the boat here?   

[Len]

Without getting into 'S' curve issues, or lengths of straigts between the end loops, this is a quick and dirty pic of how I gapped a dogbone with a double crossover a few years back. Electrically, the crossover section was the reversing section. All curves are 24 inch, with 2" straight pieces in each end loop to match to with of the crossover.



Len

[russ daley]

Thanks Len,

I'm certainly getting more usable information from you guys than the Web AI...Questions on your layout...

1) Do you basically have 3 power districts to speak but were both end loops tied together which I would think would be the Main  Bus Power?
2) How many Auto Reversers did you use?
3) Where exactly within the reversing loop did you tie into the Auto Reservers Loop Section you used? 
4) Where did you tie the Auto Reversing to Main Power at?   

[Len]

I used DCC Specialties PSX-AR and PSX-1 modudules.  Track power from the DCC System feeds both. The PSX-AR has two outputs, one feeds power to one of the end loops, the second feeds the other loop. The PXS-1 module feeds power to the crossover section. You may need to feed power to both sides of the crossover if they are isolated from each other.  There are newer versions of both modules, the PSXX-AR and PSXX-1. I haven't used either, so can't say if the wiring would be the same.

Exact wiring may vary depending on whose autoreversing unit(s) you use. So you should check with the manufacturer for specifics.

Len

 

[jward]

Given Len's diagram, it looks like you only need one autoreverser. That would be on the stem of the dogbone where the crossover is. You could tie the two balloons together via a bus. The way Len has this drawn you wouldn't have to cut any gaps in the crossover.