Tips Using 18" & 22" Radius together

[Casy jHOnes]

I thought it would be easier to add a couple passing sidings around some 18" curves using Std. 22" EZ Track curves. Even after buying some extra "Gray" 1/3 curves and 3" straits it aint so simple. Is there any diagrams available? Such as can you use 2 Std. turnouts to create a 22" siding around an 18" 1/2 circle? Some diagrams of what "shorty" pcs. are needed to make the 2 "branches" of a Std. Turnout become parallel (as in 2 strait siding tracks) etc etc would be very helpfull. I attached 2 pcs. of 1/3 18" curve to a 30' crossing and that brings it parralell to a strait section on other side of the crossing BUT they are 6" apart instead of the 4" I need for proper 18" & 22" curves to be next to each other. (Hope that made sense) I am surprised that they don't make any 1/3 pc. of a 22" Radius Std. curve section - am I wrong? . Does the Bachmann EZ Layout book go into that much detail? I don't care about mixing black & gray track & tight radius.
Sorry for so many questions & improper lingo. I am trying to make a fairly simple (I thought) sort of folded dogbone layout 6x10' . I'd like to have the base level and the 2nd level have "independant" double track loops so that a train could run on each of 3 levels in a loop that it could only "escape" from by switching over to the inside loop in order to continue to next level.
Maybe this can't be done w/o flex track but I'd sure like to try.
Thanks anyone!

[Joe Satnik]

Dear Casy,

I believe you are describing an "early cutoff" turnout pair configuration. 

Your basic outside loop (turnout straight routes) would be:

8 regular 22"R curves.   

The inside loop (turnout divergent routes) would be:

2 regular 18"R curves, 8" of straight, 2 regular 18"R curves.

You can get 8" of straight by using 3"+3"+2", or four 2" straights.

The problem is you can only get 2" straights by purchasing a newer 90 degree crossing.  (4/pkg.)

Obvious problem:  22" min. radius rolling stock will derail on the 18"R inner loop.

Hope this helps.

FT2"S !    (Free the 2" Straights !) 

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik 

[Casy jHOnes]

Thanks Joe, I understand your scenario. I was hoping to have a 1/2 circle of 6pcs. 18" Std. Track surounded by 1/2 circle (8 pcs.) of Std. 22" radius track. Then have a Std. turnout with its strait section connected to the 18" circle. The turnout could have various strait sections between it and the 1/2 circle (2",2.25", 3", 4.5", 9") There must be some way to connect the TWO 1/2 circles and maintain the perfect 4" center of rail radius between the curves?
My 22" curves are on the UPS truck in case your wondering why the HECK he doesn't he just lay this out on the floor! I guess I assumed it would be easier and all I'd have to do would be throw in a couple 1/3 sections of 18" OR 22" Rad. It doesn't look like they make a 1/3 section of 22" Radiius though?
My layout is already together with all 18" curves and 3 levels with massivly steep grades! Going for max# of tunnels, bridges, crossovers. Thought it would be simple to "stretch it" by 4" or 8" per 22" radius curve to add some double track loop sections with curves exactly 4" apart. Maybe not.

[Joe Satnik]

Casy,

I think I understand what you want to do.   Is this it?

Ignore fitter straights for this description... assume they will be calculated and used where needed.   

Start with an 18"R oval. 

Install "Remote switches" (turnouts) along the straight sides of the oval with their (18"R - 30 degree) divergent routes pointed outward. 

Add 30 degrees of turn in the opposite direction to "get back" parallel with the straight side of the 18"R oval.   

Add 1/2 circle of 22"R curves perfectly concentric with the oval's 18"R 1/2 circle, connecting to the other side's 30 degree "get back" curve and divergent route of the turnout. 

Please confirm.

Thanks.

Joe

[Casy jHOnes]

Yes that's it. Seems to me that a Std. 18" curve back towards the strait on a Std. EZ turnout comes out parallel but at 4-3/4" track centers! Does that mean I'll have to buy a "numbered" more expensive NS turnout? Intrestingly a Std. 18" curve on a 30' crossing brings tracks parallel  at 5-1/4" track centers. I'm thinking 3/4" can probably be fudged together with imperfect joint alignments but won't know until I try it. Thanks.

[Casy jHOnes]

Found this info in an old post:
"So here is what I have learned.

to get Parallel with Bachmann HO e-z track
Regular Turnout use 1 18" radius {{{Yes but at 4-3/4" track centers and about 1-1/4" different lengths}}}
#5 Turnout use 1 full piece or 2, 1/2 pieces of 33.25" radius #44508.
#6 Turnout  use 1/3 18" radius.

As far as angles I don't have a clue what they are.  I only care about what actually worked.

I hope this helps,
TrainHO"

GREAT Info EXCEPT - doesn't give distance between track centers! After reading many other posts I guess I'm not alone but I can't beleive Bach doesn't have some drawings. I am ready to "buy, buy buy" but can't get the info! Is there good examples in the latest Bach. Book?

[Joe Satnik]

Casy,

Yes,

Math says 4.823" parallel spacing.  It has to be equal to or less than 4.0".

So, something has to give.   

3 Ideals: 

1. No cutting of turnouts or other track.

2. Perfectly concentric 18"R and 22"R half circles.

3. Use only Bachmann HO EZ-Track (eg.,no mixing with Atlas C100 Snap/cork roadbed).

So, which of the three are you willing to give up?

Joe

I see you posted again.

1.5" offset on the "remote switch" curve section, not 1.25".  (Imitation of Atlas C100 Snap-Switch footprint with 1/3 curve attached.)

Other turnout info you show may not be 100% correct. (I think #5 is wrong.)

For some strange reason Bachmann keeps their critical track dimensions close to their vest.  To find them out you have to

1.) guess,
2.) measure them yourself, or
3.) buy a layout program with an HO EZ-Track library.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
   

[Casy jHOnes]

Thanks Joe,

If it was easy everyone would be able to do it. I'll figure something out. Just worried how many unused pcs. will be leftover.

[Joe Satnik]

Casy,

Terry Toenges is our resident HO EZ-Track Expert/Experimenter.  He can always use more track.  I'd pay for the postage. 

Two more ideals:

4.) Avoid buying expensive EZ-Track numbered turnouts.

5.) Keep present 18"R half circle as is.

I will help you figure out your layout, but you have to decide which ideal or ideals you want to give up. 

I'm gonna guess you will go with the least expensive route, in this case, using what you have on hand or is on the way.   

You'll probably want to keep the 18"R half circle as is, and allow the 22"R half circle to be modified to something other than precisely concentric with the 18"R half circle. 

Let me know.

Joe

   

[Casy jHOnes]

Thanks Again Joe,

Yep - I've got that short window of pretending kid is intrested so I can build what I never finished when I was 9! But can't $pend too much more w/o catching wifes attn.

-I read a post about custom cutting track by carefully measuring, cut out the middle and then join with rail joiners or solder. End result is a custom length with Bachmann Factory ends. Is that best way? Is there a hand saw or track nipper instead of spending for a Dremel Tool?
-Maybe I can use short custom pcs. of 15" Radius to get the 4" track center?
-Curious if there is sort of a track exchange between some of you guys? Do folks use the 36" strait tracks much? More expensive even at bulk price but is it worth it to have less joints?
-Wich Atlas Turnout is the exact size as a Std. Bach. least exp. model? Is it really as easy as just putting the correct thickness of material under it?
Thanks for your help.

[Terry Toenges]

Casy -
Maybe this will help you out.
http://www.sarget.com/trains/traintips/bach/traintip-eztrack.html

[Joe Satnik]

Casy,
Sorry for not replying earlier.  Now I'm too tired. 
I'll get back to you in the morning. 

Good job searching. 

Joe

[Joe Satnik]

Casy,

I have 2 solutions for your concentric half circles problem using Atlas snap switches and cork in place of the Bachmann "Remote Switches".

The first solution needs an extra 3/4" room for both loops on the "concentric half circles" end. 

Snap switch divergent route, bare. (= 20 degrees-18"R)
(By "bare" I mean no 1/3 curve added to it.)

one 3" straight

one 2-1/4" straight

two 10 degree (=1/3) 18"R curves both opposite direction from turnout (back to parallel)

Quarter circle of 22"R curves

Mirror image the other side. 

Snap switch straight route

one 4.5" straight

one 3" Straight

one 2.25" straight

Quarter circle of 18"R curves.

Mirror image on the other side.

Second solution if you can't move the loops 3/4":

Same as above, except replace 9" straight attached to points end of Snap Switch with

two 3" straights and

one 2-1/4" straight.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

Terry T:  Please make a note of this configuration, try it if you'd like.  Shooting for perfectly concentric 18"R and 22"R half circles.

[Casy jHOnes]

Joe - That's over the top help! Thanks! If I need MORE help do you charge per situation or number of EZ track sections involved? Other?

[Joe Satnik]

Dear Casy,

You're welcome.  Thanks for the kind words.  If you do a good job describing the situation, it's easy.

I do have new 2 pc. Bachmann power packs (44212) for sale if you ever need one. 

Contact me offline joebarbATwwtDOTnet if interested.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik