The Great Northern's W-1's had four drive axles, per main truck. The same as you state the DD-2 experimental resembling a GG-1, was equipted with. I think the Virginian (original owner of the E-33's) also had some W-1's, though I don't remember if they carried the same class designation on the VGN. They might have even been the units from the GN, after the Cascade Division was de-electrified. The only other electrics in the US to have the same four-drive-axle configeration per main truck, were the Milwaukee Road's and South Shore Line's "Little Joe's", and the Milwaukee Road's Bi-Polar's. Now THAT would be an interesting sight, in New Haven McGinnis colors.

As for the P5a, crew survival in a grade crossing accident in the boxcabs (engineer and fireman would see it about to happen "up close and personal"...), resulted in the P5a "Modified" version, which resembled a shruken GG-1. Same locomotive mechanically, and could MU with the boxcabs, but with a "centered" cab. There was also at least one P5b, an upgraded boxcab, but no others got the modifications given to that unit. The majority of them lasted in freight service, until around 1966.

Actually, the Pennsy's DD-2's were the Great Northern's Y-1 class boxcabs come East, when the GN sold them to the PRR after de-electrification of their Cascade Route. One of which (but to my knowledge, not acquired by the Pennsy) was rebuilt after a bad accident, with a couple of EMD F-unit bodies spliced together, as a replacement carbody. From what I read, one of the problems the Pennsy experienced with them, was severe interference with the two-way radio system they were using onboard trains, at the time.

The E-44's were rectifier units also. Contrary to the opinion of GG-1's in black, I think the E-44's in black with "PENNSYLVANIA" on the long hoods, unit number below the cab windows, and the twin Faively pantographs, were one of the few freight electrics, to look good in that color.  After Amtrak decided the E60-CP's to be illsuited for passenger service, I wonder how they would have done, if like some GG-1's, and the P5a boxcabs and modifieds before them, they'd been regeared for freight service, and sold to Conrail. Picture a pair of E60's on the point of a northbound solid string of Tropicana reefers between Baltimore and Philly, or Philly and Kearney, N.J. Or maybe dragging a string of quad-hoppers eastbound through Coatesville, Thorndale, or Paoli, on their way to the Delaware River docks in Philly.

You think the GG-1 in Acela colors look's sharp?! Of all the depravities!  Have you no shame?! There may be children in this room!

It could have been better or worst. For better, imagine AEM-7's, and ALP-44's, in Tuscan Red, with gold cat whisker stripes, keystones on the cab fronts, and "P E N N S Y L V A N I A" on the sides. For worst, picture GG-1's, New York Central P, S, or T motors, and Milwaukee Road "Little Joe's", in the Acela paint scheme...

To my knowledge, other than the numerous brass offerings of wood, heavy steel, light-alloy steel, and stainless steel done in brass over the past thirty-seven years, only the Life-Like/Walthers Proto 1000 R-17's, and R-21's, along with Image Replicas BMT Standards, R-1's, 15's, 17's, 21's, 26/28/29/33's, 62's, 68's, and 142's, have been done in plastic. MTS Imports have done the CTA 4000's, and R-1's, in epoxy back in the early 1970's, and Traction Models did the BMT BU wood-bodied gate cars with center doors, along with the IRT Low-V's, in a cast metal kit. MTS Imports also did the CTA 1-50's, in cast metal back in the early 1970's. I know this, because I have a pair of the MTS Imports cast metal CTA 1-50's, and a pair of the IND R-1's, along with a few of each of the Traction Models cars. All of which I bought new. Being that I was working my way through 9th-thru-12th Grades at the time and on an allowance, "new car orders" for my transit roster were somewhat restricted by financial constraints at the time, so I kitbashed a lot of gate cars out of AHM (now IHC) oldtime coaches.

The point is still that in the intervening years, nobody has produced a wood-bodied closed-vestibule heavy rapid transit car in plastic, except for Bronze-Key Models' deck-roof CTA 2800-series Met L' cars almost twenty years ago. And they were impossible to find in any train shops that I frequented, away from Chicago.

Like I said before, I don't expect even half of my preferred cars to be mass-produced. But it would be nice to see at least one variation of a pre-1940 elevated car, with enclosed end vestibules, with or without center side doors. Either IRT, BMT, Met L', or Northwestern L'. It doesn't matter as my rapid transit layout is freelanced.

I don't have a bias against open-platformed wood-bodied el' cars. In fact, I have approx. a dozen in my kitbashed car roster. But the point is that almost every time a manufacturer come's out with a wood-bodied el'car, it's either one of the South Side L' cars from Chicago, a Manhattan Railways 6-4-6 window car, or a Brooklyn Union car, from New York City. The Northwestern L', and Met L' in Chicago, had closed vestibule wood-bodied cars, and so did the IRT in Manhattan and the Bronx. The BMT even went a step farther, and rebuilt wood-bodied cars where all doors opened directly into the passenger compartment, just like later steel-bodied cars in both cities, and elsewhere.

I don't want every car that I like to be produced, necessarily. But it would be nice to have something different than the same configeration being clone over and over. Chicago is not just the 4000's, and 6000's, anymore than New York City is just the Low-V's, R-17's, and BMT Standards.

I this is the deck-roof 2800-series CTA (Met L') car that I was referring to:
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/wood/cta2904.jpg

This is the 1800-series CTA (Northwestern L') car that I was referring to:
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/wood/cta1812.jpg

Of course, I could live with the deck-roof 2700-series CTA (Met L') car, with the fishbelly sidesills too:
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/wood/crt2791.jpg

All better than the usual kneejerk reaction by a manufacturer when you mention wood-bodied elevated car, interpreted as clearestory roof, with open end platforms. Either in Chicago, or New York City.

The problem with the Walthers inserts, is thatthey are meant for conventional steam/diesel trains being switched, in street trackage. A 15-inch, or 18-inch radius curve would be excessively broad for any intersection with streetcars making a 90-degree turn from one street, to the other. Not a problem for streetcars on private R-O-W, but then, you wouldn't need to pave the tracks there anyway, if motor vehicles are restricted from the trackways anyhow.

There have been several releases over the years, of CTA 4000, 6000, and 1-50 series el' cars. If a Chicago el' car is done in a plastic body, I'd like to see either the 1800-series wood el' cars that were used on the Lake St. L', or the 2800-series deck-roof wood cars that were used on the Met L'. Both were closed-end cars, which were capable of running in the same train with the steel 4000-series cars, and saw service up until the end of wood car use on the CTA, in 1957. That would also make them credible on a Chicago-based layout, with either the 4000's, or 6000's, as both car series were in use at the same time with the wood cars, between 1951, and 1957, sometimes on the same lines.

Paul F.;

Yes, I've seen the models of the Budd cars that ran on the el' in Philly. In fact, my first ride on the prototype cars was when I was four years old (1960), and I even remember riding the two car series that were in use, when the Budd cars were delivered. Used to bicycle out to the 69th St. yard abd shop complex and watch the activity, as it was across the street from a hobby shop, where I shopped for model train items. 69th St. Shop was the prototype for a four-track carshop that I kitbashed for my subway-el' layout, out of the old Revell two-track enginehouse kits.

For those who aren't comfortable with a short rapid transit train, here's a photo of a three-car train of the Hudson & Manhattan Railroad D-Class cars near Newark, NJ, near the end of their operating lives, in 1958.

http://www.hudsoncity.net/tubesenglish/galleryframesetcars.html

Woody;

The IRT routinely ran two-car trains on the Second Ave. el' in Manhattan, the Polo Grounds Shuttle between 155th St. in Manhattan, and the Jerome Ave. el' in the Bronx, to 167th St., as well as the Dyre Ave. Line between 180th St., and Dyre Ave. The BMT ran two-car trains on the Culver Shuttle, Franklin Shuttle, and Lexington Ave. el'. And Staten Island Rapid Transit also ran two-car trains, prior to being re-equipted with the R-44's. Plus there's the IRT's Grand Central-Times Square Shuttle. So short trains are not out of the realm of operation, on New York subway and el' lines. Even the Third Ave. el' routinely ran trains of 3-5 cars, depending on the traffic level.

Keep in mind, a ten-car train is not necessary for a realistic rapid transit train, anymore than three SD-40's, and one hundred quad-hoppers are required, to run a unit coal train on a layout. It's just not practical, as you'd end up having trains on an el' so long, that the lead car is rolling into a station, just as the trailing end car is leaving the preceeding station. A 4, 5, or 6-car train is plenty long enough, for an HO scale layout, as the el' stations on my layout are just under three feet long, and a four-car train of the Proto 1000 R-17's or R-21's, uses almost the entire platform length.

Woody, I have to agree with Paul F.;

First, your assertion that all pre-1940 rapid transit (subway-elevated) trains were retired long before most current modelers could ride them, is inaccurate. The Chicago Transit Authority didn't retire their 1922-built 4000-series cars, until 1973. I was seventeen at that time. The Southeasrtern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA), didn't retire the 1928-built, 1936-built, and 1938-built cars on the Broad Street Subway in Philadelphia, until 1982, when I was twenty-six. And the IND R-1's-thru-R-9's in New York, didn't make their final revenue runs until approx. 1977.

Now, on to your point about train length. THe IRT, and BMT in New York, as well as the CTA in Chicago, and SEPTA in Philadelphia, have run trains as short as two cars, in regular mid-day service, as well as six-thru-eleven-car trains during the AM and PM rushes.  That's the point of couplers, to allow assembling and disassembling trains to lengths required for the traffic demand.

As to your assertion that most current modelers have no interest in pre-war (1939-45) rapid transit, then why has The Bach Mann seen fit to announce production of a 1930's-era Peter Witt trolley, which is a form of rapid transit?

For those that would prefer a more current rapid transit car, the IRT boast's the R-62's, and R-142's. The CTA has their 2200-thru-3400-series' cars in operation. And the MBTA has their Hawker-Sidley Blue Line cars, dating from approx. 1980, which are about to be replaced with newer cars themselves. All of which are of reasonable length to use on relative tight (15-inch radius) curves, as well as every car to have ever operated on the Hudson & Manhattan Railroad/Port Authority Trans Hudson (H&M/PATH) lines between Newark, NJ, and Lower Manhattan.

The point is, that there is just as much variety to chose from for rapid transit modelers to state their preference, as there are for steam, diesel, and heavy electric modelers. It's simply a matter of the majority stating the car(s) most preferred, to Bachmann, or another manufacturer.