And I conceded the fact that none of the US claims where official or well documented in my very first post. I just offered some other thoughts which seemed to be what Stewart was asking.

Roger on the other hand wants to rub it in everyones face, repeating the same thing over and over.

And I guess he is offened because I am not suitibly impressed with a machine that sets a record but then breaks down and needs a tow home.

But am more impressed with machines that perform exceptionally day in and day out in regular service, even if they don't hold any records.

There is really only one way to settle this. We find a couple of billionares to build exact copies of the Mallard and an E6, lay 20 miles of straight level double track, and let the race begin. And if we make it two out of three, I know the E6 will win.

Yes Roger the Mallard holds the record, my only point was that given the opportunity, the E6 and maybe a few others would have given her a run for her money. They may or may not have beat that record. No one will ever know.

There is plenty of evidence to suguest that E6's regularly hit speeds over 110, whether or not they ever reached 126, nobody knows for sure, for all the reasons Roger has stated, over, and over, and over.


Sheldon

OK Roger,

We get it, it does not count unless 27 bureaucrats from the home office ministry of weights and measures certified the dynamometer car 30 seconds before the record was set and 27 more certified the record as it happened.

But again, to get from Washington to New York in 3 hours, on wheels of any kind, even today, you have to be going pretty fast at least some of the time.

Sheldon

Since 1968 for me.

Sheldon

Anyone who needs more acuracy than Jim's formula for this job, needs way more theapy than model trains can provide.

My Sears digital level is very nice for this job, but it seams no more acurate than than a level and a tape measure properly used.

Sheldon

Stewart,

Tax collectors are a subject we should avoid on here before I start talking about how we are being robbed at gun point by the government and some liberal starts telling me about how they "need" the money to save me from myself and that  I "owe" all those people who live off the taxes I pay.

There are plenty of "grey market" economies, E-bay is just the newest! It's a shame the orginal limitations on taxation where ever removed from the US Constitution.

As for the UK, I know nothing of their tax system other than to know I'm sure the taxes are too high.

Sheldon

Yes, Roger,

That's what I said, it is just hear say, but the science of engineering combined with my personal knowledge of the Lindberg Special's route (I have lived my whole life in central Maryland) tells me that the Lindberg Special had to have made some fantastic times in the open stretches, and it kept it up for three hours, and did not have to be towed home afterwards.

Again, a much more impressive "record" in my opinion.

Sheldon

One more thought,

The Lindberg Special averaged almost 85 mph for 224 miles with two stops, dozens of juctions that would have had less than ideal track conditions for high speeds, curves, grades, etc.

No one knows, except a few people long gone now, how fast that E6 went in the straight ways, but just based on similar proportions with auto travel of road speed to average trip speed, would sugest they maintained speeds well over 110mph in open country.

And in my opinion, that ability to average 80mph over 224 miles is much more impressive than hitting 126 for a short distance anyway.

Sheldon

There are a number of North American locos that where known to be capable of those speeds or even significantly greater speeds. But seems that in a vast country of many different independent railroads, no offical railroad racetracks for such tests, and no "record police", many people both in North America and elsewhere seem to easily dismiss any claim that an American loco went ever went faster than the Mallard.

Based on what I know about US railroad practices, I suspect that "record" was broken quite freqently on railroads like the PRR or the SP any time an Engineer with an E6 and six cars or a GS4 on the Daylight was behind schedule and wanted to make up the time. But there were not a bunch of "officals" around to note the fact, so it's just hearsay.

The engineering says that either of the two locos mentioned above, and a number of others, could have easily went that fast, at least for a short distance, given adequate track conditions.

But the railroads all had safety rules and these guys wanted to keep their jobs. So it is unlikely they would tell many people they hit 140 mph on their run today.

I know this next example is not steam, but in the 1970's, when the first Metroliners replaced standard cars pulled by GG1's on the Northeast Corridor, winter ice and snow would disable the Metroliners and replacement GG1's with six cars would beat the Metroliner schedule with no problem. New is not always better, or faster.

Sheldon

Larry & Gene,

As to the roadbed question, I prefer homabed brand roadbed. I nail it down with a prad nailer, then glue the track to it with the PolySeamSeal.

I have not experimented with foam yet. Not sure if i like the idea, it seems so soft to me. I know many others love it. several in our group use it, some for roadbed, others only use it for scenery, using homabed or homasote for roadbed.

Sheldon

Gene,

White glue does not really stick to plastic, it only holds by shaping itself around the plastic. white glue is really only intended for porious materials like paper and wood

PloySeamSeal actually sticks to plastic.

Sheldon

Stewart,

I agree and disagree. I spend my hobby dollars at number of local (within 40 miles) brick and mortar hobby/train stores, as well as several big mailorder outlets (most of which also have retail stores).

I worked in the retail hobby business from the age 14 and know what you mean about the value of the local shop.

But, I will not go out of my way to pay more than the going rate for something and I will not support businesses that are not responsive to my needs.

As I noted in another recent thread on the topic of a train outlet closing, Many years ago a shop owner I worked for realized that the amount of product available and the oncoming discounting would require a new kind of hobby shop in the future. One that is big enough to buy direct and sell competitively wihile still providing good service.

There are lots of such shops today and many are able to do this because their mail order business gives them enough volume to buy direct at the right price. And often they serve those with no local shop within a reasonable driving distance.

One fine example is M B Klein in Balitmore. Great selection, great service, brick and mortar and mail order/web and discount prices since the 1950's.

Small local shops like those I worked in as a teenager, while romantic, cannot have repersentitive inventories of todays vast selection of product nor can they provide reasonable prices in todays market. If I am going to shop there, I expect a reasonable selection of what is available and reasonable prices. Not necessarily the lowest price, but a price in line with the discounts generally available.

And as much fun as the "local" shop was, even then it was MORE fun to go into Baltimore to Kleins where they had "EVERYTHING!". He was a premier large shop even back then in this area and he knew that price and selection drew people from great distances to spend money.

So yes, support hobby shops, but don't pay too much, and expect a good selection. Would you shop at a grocery that had to special order in milk and bread?

Sheldon

Stewart,

I know, this is why in another thread on this subject, I suggested they give me all the defect locos and I will start a parts support company. But it would require some supply of new parts as well. Maybe Mr. Riley will take me seriously and give me a call or drop me a e-mail. I'm easy to contact, unlike some others.

Sheldon

Here we go again Mr Bach Man, another call for a real parts department with documentation and a supply of parts.

Sheldon

BaltoOhioRRfan,

Do you have a layout yet? Are you planning one? There is nothing wrong with buying locos. I consider myself pretty well disciplined when it comes to buying stuff for my railroad, and I have over 70 locos total, all powered, no dummy units.

We have a saying in our local group, locomotives should be bought in groups of no less then two! It is part of the idea of keeping a prototypical look to your fleet.

But once you decide on a theme and plan for a layout you will be focused on just purchasing what you need to fit that layout. Collecting will seem less important once you get involed in operating and building a layout.

Sheldon

I will echo the Trainworld recommendation and add that if you call them on their regular number, rather than the 800 number, they will take all the time you need to answer questions and take your order.

Another great store with great mail order service is M B Klein, on the web at www.modeltrainstuff.com. They have a deeper modeler oriented inventory than most low priced outlets, great prices, and a store if you are near Baltimore.

Sheldon