Terry, you could just adjust the color level with your photo software. I use Canon's Zoombrowser and have converted several images from color to black and white - or even better sepia (slightly yellowish or golden tone). If you have the bucks, there is always Adobe Photoshop...of course that would take some much needed funds away from your layout efforts. I am trying to figure out how to post pictures on this forum as I do occasionally on the MR forum (same screen name BTW).

Gosh...a 4% grade? You must have some "mondo" traction tires or run very short trains to be able to climb that hill. Terry, I just know you love steep grades, geared engines and logging! Of course there is always cog railroading or a funicular railway up one of the walls...just a thought (OK...I'm kidding).

Ray

Great pictures Terry. It would seem that you have a lot of rolling stock and engines (I guess there is never a problem with motive power on the extra board.). I especially liked the black & white pictures that made the scene appear as if it were photographed in the 19th century. Thanks for sharing these images with us.

Get 'em rolling,
Ray

Rich, I checked out that website you suggested and all I can say is: thank you, thank you, thank you!! There is a ton of information and resources...all in one spot. I have never built a resin kit; but there is no time like the present to try.

Ray

My model railroad is set in 1889 and as such has required me to do some fairly extensive research on that time period. Your choice of the Jupiter is an interesting one.

First some history: the Jupiter was constructed by the Schenectady Locomotive Works (NY) in 1868 as a woodburning engine for the Central Pacific RR. The engine was dismantled and shipped by ship and barge to Sacramento, CA - to be used as a road engine...in other words, nothing special. As a result of an accident, to the special engine Antelope (which was carrying dignitaries to the Golden Spike celebration), the party transferred to the local road engine...the Jupiter. It is the famous May 10, 1869 picture of the driving of the last spike that put Jupiter's name in the history books. During an 1870s engine repainting, the name "Jupiter" was dropped and she was thereafter known as #60. In 1885, the Central Pacific was absorbed into the Southern Pacific RR and ceased to exist as a separate entity. The SP renumbered the engine as #1195 in 1891. Sadly, #1195 (ex-Jupiter) was sold for scrap in 1909 for $1,000.

Jupiter probably hauled more freight than passenger cars. Remember, this was a local road engine and took whatever traffic that was assigned. OK, regarding proper passenger cars: I would look very closely at the Mantua passenger cars...they are of the correct shape and size for the era (although they are not outstanding examples of the type). If you move the time frame up to the 1870s (and beyond) the MDC/Roundhouse cars would fit the bill (again, compromises must be made).

This engine was a woodburner and was scrapped in 1909 - so it never pulled the road's varnish...its shining moment was those couple of days in 1869 (Antelope was repaired and brought the brass hats back to Sacramento - following the ceremoney and festivities). Most railroads were converting their woodburners to coal (a rather lengthy and expensive task) by the mid to late 1870s. It is amazing that Jupiter was able to "hang in there" into the 20th century! Not having much in the way of tractive effort: think short trains and short, light cars. Personally I would repaint the engine and run her as another American 4-4-0 type - giving you many more options. Your interest in this historic period underlies the need for more locomotive and rolling stock from the major suppliers. Good luck with your Bachmann tender-driven high stepper.

Hope this helps,
Ray

I was right...you do have all kinds of experience. Judging from the image with the Atlas turntable, it appears you do possess the skills to produce a really nice layout. If you have the space, I would seriously consider building a [shelf?] layout that is grounded in the 1880s or 90s. It was a time of wooden cars and iron men ('got this from a poster on the MR forum...it is his signature). The major problem would be availability of rolling stock. Updating to the 1940s (or more) really opens up the options BUT will also increase the complexity (engine types, types of rolling stock, industries, vehicles, and signaling to name a few issues).

Regarding changing the layout in progress: I am working on plans to change some of the parts of the Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut. I built a near-copy of the roundhouse the road used in the late 1800's, am scratch-building a model of one of the line's stations from that period; but something doesn't work. For one thing the roundhouse takes up too much layout real estate...an enginehouse would work better. Well...without going into details - I will probably tear up a portion of the layout when I move it in from the garage to the ex-guest room. See? The work is never done.

If you still harbor an interest in late 19th century railroading I would suggest you start "haunting" any train shows in your area. Usually the older Bachmann, Mantua, AHM, Poucher cars are readily available and go for good prices. Ebay's selection is pretty slim...and the prices can be outrageous. Hmmm, I see you were involved in being a lumberjack, wood stripping company owner and mushroom picker? How about a logging layout (with a few mushrooms for good measure)?

Keep thinking,
Ray

PS: I haven't tried to post images on this forum but check out some of my posts on the MR forums. I have the same screen name...'can't handle too many concepts at the same time.

Terry...it sounds like you are a man of many talents. The old Bachmann and Mantua cars (I will assume they are 19th century models) can be made into fairly good looking rolling stock. The Mantua cars can have magnetic couplers installed - after you cut off the truck mounted units. These cars just need a little paint (especially on those ugly door tracks) and some weathering. I also only run metal wheels; so I replace the plastic wheel sets with Kadee ribbed-back wheel sets for smoother running (ribbed-back wheels are the correct ones for 19th century models). Bachmann gondolas can be repainted/decorated for your road and the "wood" sideboards can be distressed with a file to show wear. Again, some weathering makes all the difference. You will also have to cut off the truck-mounted couplers and replace the plastic wheels. BTW: what is the name of your [proposed] railroad? What will be its purpose? Think about it.

Your lack of commitment to any one interest may be age related - or as a result of your Vietnam experience...I am too far away and haven't spoken long enough with you to tell. It is possible that you may have a touch, or a residual level, of ADD. I have read a couple of Psych Journal articles that show some research into the areana of adult ADD. Don't worry about it too much as I have been involved in numerous interests and look at me now...wait a minute that didn't come out right.

Perhaps you could prioritize your interests. For example spend a portion of the year working on your T-bucket. When you attentions wanes, do something with your model railroad. Don't spend so much time on any one project that you begin to marginalize your efforts...diversify. Ah ha!! Your are a musician? OK, how interesting would music be if you only listened to/learned/played five or six songs? I would imagine your instrument would soon be gathering dust. Model railroading, building a T-bucket rod, or anything similar are HOBBIES...you do them when you want. These interests are your stress relievers...not your vocation. For what it is worth, you seem to be a very interesting person...definitely not boring! Go with the flow - but remember even the flow has to stay within the banks.

The longest journey begins with the first step. OK, one step at a  time: walk around your living area (house?, apartment? cave?) and see where - and how large a layout you can have that makes sense. Be careful...the larger the layout - the more expensive the project and the greater the commitment - KISS principle. Don't tell us you don't have any space for a train layout...hanging or folding in the garage?..on wheels under the bed?...a small shelf layout...there are lots of places to play. The English are extremely resourceful, with layout locations/space, partly due to the small size of their homes. If they can do it so can you.

It would really help if you could get a buddy involved in benchwork construction (besides you need someone to lie to). This is usually the step that is easier with another set of hands. Maybe you know someone who doesn't like trains (sicko); but is interested - and somewhat skilled with woodworking? You were involved in Vet activities? You must know someone who would give you a hand...if only to get out of the house (theirs not necessarily yours)...pizza usually attracts willing hands.

Terry, you can do this. How about starting off with a small shelf layout? There are some websites that have plans for such a project. Keep it simple: use EZ-track and have a couple of spurs for switching (watching trains chase their tails gets very boring - very fast). Kalmbach Publishing and Atlas Tool Company (makers of Atlas rr products) have produced numerous track plan books. Go to the next model railroad show and get enthused. Part of my current layout is the Timesaver Route originated by John Allen...basically a switching (or shunting) problem. Need more information? Google "Shunting Puzzles" as there is an English website that explains the concept and gives some layout plans. YouTube.com has a series of video "lessons" on laying and weathering flex track that are interesting and informative.

Please come back to the forum, on a regular basis, if only to let us know how you are doing. Whether you realize it or not you have taken the first step in the process by posting. The hobby needs you as much as you need the hobby.

I'm going to hold you to it...
Ray

Welcome aboard Terry...'wonderful to meet you and don't be a stranger! Actually it doesn't matter what era you model because there is something to learn and enjoy in all of them. My Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut layout is loosely modeled on a real short-line that ran from the late 1870s through 1906 when it was absorbed into the Central New England RR (hence my screen name...a "runner" was the 19th century name for a locomotive engineer). Given my space/location constraints, I have had to play with history more than a little (I should have put "loosely" in italics, in the preceding sentence, as I take frequent liberties with the real N.D.& C.

I understand your reticence in trashing the Christmas layout. All is not lost as you must have learned something in the building process - if it was only NOT to do the same thing again. A little secret: in the 40+ years I have been involved in model railroading, I have only completed ONE layout (if a layout is ever considered "completed"). While a little expensive, beginning anew gives us the chance to wipe the slate clean and profit from our past mistakes.

In summary, I say go for it! Open up the checkbook and buy a Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0 (assuming you still harbor an interest in 19th century railroading). If you don't have DCC - purchase a beginning set up like Bachmann's or MRC (which I use)...you can always upgrade later. There are still lots of MDC/Roundhouse kits out there begging to be built. Keep your first layout simple; but with the ability to expand. And most important of all: keep asking and contributing to the forums. All of us that post are here to help, support, and want you to ask questions. None of us has all the knowledge available - but together we just about have it all covered. I recommend this forum and the Model Railroader forum (you do subscribe to MR don't you?). Honestly, I have shared with the nicest folks on these forums.

OK buddy...start planning that layout!! Feel free to contact me off-line.

Ray

Good morning Bob...'glad I could make your day...I meant every word of my statement (would a retired psychologist lie?). I only have two questions: 1) do you have a watch dog and, 2) is your house equipped with an alarm? Yes, let me know what you are going to do with those cars. I, also, frequently buy rolling stock that is decorated for a foreign road. Usually (on a wood-sided car) a lttle light sanding and I can overpaint/decorate. For some reason, the kit manufacturers have missed decorating some of their offerings for the Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut RR or the (later) Central New England RR...probably just an oversight. I guess it will be up to Bachmann to "fill in the void".

I wish you lived closer to Alabama as being a "lone wolf" gets kind of lonely from time to time. I am running out of people to whom I can tell lies (the cats know my tales and ignore them). I am not a club person; but it sure would be fun to co-operate with another fanatic once in a while. With our proposed [Fall 2009] move to bring my layout from the garage into the house; I will be in 7th heaven! As it stands, I can only run trains for a very short percentage of the year (mainly Spring and Fall as the summers get too hot and the winters too cold...OK you northern readers...I can hear you laughing). I guess this gives me lots of time to build and armchair plan...and occasionally do some housework.

Keep 'em rolling rolling and my email is on the profile page,

Ray

Hey Rich. Well,,,when you're wrong, you're wrong. I did miss the link and am sorry about that (really neat car isn't it?). You are right; the instructions for the photography car kit do look fairly easy. Hmmm....'just might try one if it is on the market. Wow...BC Models had over fifty different types of rolling stock??? You really know how to hurt a guy don't you Rich. Let's hope Bittercreek makes even a small portion of BC's offerings.

My wife and I will be traveling throughout the Southwest this summer. I think I will follow Yampa Bob's suggestion of "haunting" any hobby shops encountered along the way. BTW that old Varney kit, I built, was bought at a train show we vendored for $3 (vendor to vendor cost). It still amazes me the difficulty early model railroaders had to endure to enjoy their hobby.

I think I'll fire up #8 (Bachmann American 4-4-0) and tack on that Varney...for old times' sake.

Take care,
Ray

I was surprised to see this older thread still active. RichG, that photographer's car looks great (whether or not one actually existed); but I caution you about the complexity of such a kit. I have built older Varney kits that included castings, carvings and paper overlays. These kits are definitely not for someone who isn't well-grounded in advanced craftsman techniques...do not confuse these kits with laser-cut versions...these are much, much more difficult.

Will, good luck finding 1880s kits in N-scale. Much of what we have on the market (I am referring to 19th century HO kits) was produced in the 1970s and 80s. N-scale was in its infancy then - so the pickings are pretty slim...times are changing though.

Yampa Bob: as always you are a fount of knowledge and are helpful...you are one of the contributors who make this forum as good as it is. I have 15 or 20 MDC/Roundhouse kits that I overspray and redecorate with dry transfer sets from Clover House. The major problem is the MDC kits are actually models of cars that were produced after the turn of the century (and prior to WWI)...simply put they are too large. I recently bought (rescued?) a Mantua horse car. After some painting, re-wheeling and re-coupling it turned into a nice little car. According to my HO scale ruler it measures out at 27' which is correct for the 1880s. The difference in size between the Roundhouse cars (36') and the Mantua (27') really shows up when they are mixed.

Harold: We "batted" this topic around some on the Model Railroader forum recently. The HOn3 market was small and constituted a "fringe element" of the hobby until kits and RTR began to appear on the scene. Furthermore, Bachmann almost singlehandedly produced interest in On3 because they began producing excellent locomotives and cars (are you still listening Mr. Bach-Man?). I honestly think the notion "...if you build it - they will come" applies to 19th century model railroading as well. It is hard to build up interest (read that as "market") if there is little, to no, products offered within the gendre.

So what is the answer? We will do what legions of past modelers have done and "make due". I will continue to modify/redecorate rolling stock that is close to my modeling era. I will continue to build a few BTS kits. I will continue to check out the Bittercreek Models website to see what their rolling stock offerings will be. And, last - but not least, I will continue to model the 1880s. Having said that, I need to hitch Big John to the buggy and head into town.

Keep the faith,
Ray

Hey Bill: mistakes are the grease that keeps the economy going! It would take a ream of paper to list all the screw-ups I have done in model railroading. Don't be afraid to try...time and money can fix just about anything. Your best source of information is this, and the Model Railroader, forums. You have some incredibly knowledgable and talented people at your fingertips (No...I'm not one of them). If you are not a member of both...join now. You can learn a lot by just lurking (not contributing) on the website.

I suggest you start off simply - and then build up the complexity as your skill level increases. DCC makes the game a whole lot easier than it used to be. If you are starting out, go directly past DC. Take your time with your trackwork and electrical connections...this will pay dividends later. Want to try weathering a car? Buy a cheapy and work at it...if you don't like what you see you aren't out all that much. I started out with plastic building kits and gradually started on craftsman laser kits. The truth of the matter is that I prefer the craftsman kits to the plastic offerings. 'Want to jump into craftsman kits?. Buy a simple, tab-and-slot, kit in the $12 to $15 range and have at it! Trust me, you will be amazed at the results (it would help to have at least one of Scott Mason's DVDs for some great tips).

I hope we have inspired you to stretch your horizons.

Ray

Another suggestion is to glue a small straight pin into the truck (after the base is removed). This will allow you to easily secure the tree to your senic material (I use Styrofoam insulation material).

Ray

Hi Slam...welcome to the forum! I, personally, do not use EZ-track; but your observations on Jim's timely suggestions are bang on (would we expect more from someone who has been in the hobby for almost 60 years?). The only caveat I wish to bring up is regarding the use of a syringe needle. I don't know in which state you reside, but many ban the possession of a hypodermic syringe needle without a perscription. Here, in Alabama, that (and many other things) isn't a problem.

While I use Peco flex-track and turnouts, and I do solder a power feed to every length of track, Jim is correct in saying that would be (is) a time-consuming project. In the past I have used dielectric grease to great success (PS: the only place you want to solder track sections is on curves).

I am glad you found this forum and I invite you to also join the Model Railroader forum at www.modelrailroader.com in the near future. One can never have enough input.

Ray

Hey Rich...I think you are on the wrong thread!

Ray

Hey y'all check out the Model Railroader forums (http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/146079.aspx) where we have already explored this thread. Saying there isn't enough interest in Civil War/late 19th century engines and rolling stock is bunk! I think Bachmann did an outstanding job of introducing a lot of modelers to On30...they (or others) could do the same for HO. Rather than have me repeat some excellent points here - check out the MR thread.

Ray