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Author Topic: Spelling and grammar...an interesting article....  (Read 11516 times)
Woody Elmore

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« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2010, 10:42:43 AM »

I teach in graduate school and we require a writing sample for admission.  The college offers free writing classes for those students whom we feel need some work with written English. The sad part is that every applicant we have is a college graduate and most of them are teachers!

There are many reasons for the problems with written English. Many blame the internet and text messaging. Others say that the schools are at fault.

Newspaper and magazine circulation are declining due to the availability of material on the internet and the fact that a pot of people today don't take or have the time to read.

The strange thing is that the Chinese and Indian governments are pushing schools to teach English grammar and composition because they know that English is the language of commerce.

for those of you who are interested in the vagaries of English grammar I suggest this website: www.grammarphobia.com

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Jhanecker2

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« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2010, 11:36:33 AM »

To Narrowminded : I admit that that literature prior to the first World War seems to be overwritten to our modern tastes.  Reading the works of Jules Verne , Mark Twain, Edgar Rice Burroughs, H.G. Wells and others is a different experience from reading Hemmingway and later authors . I suspect that they were speaking to different audiences.

To Woody Elmore : There is more than enough blame to go around , the problem is how correct the problem . I believe it is an attitudinal problem where it is not KOOL to appear intelligent or for that matter to be intelligent .  In a democracy that attitude is suicidal , an intelligent electorate is an absolute necessity . Not only is English the defacto commercial language it is also the global scientific & engineering language .  Cultures cannot afford to stand still . John II
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CNE Runner


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« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2010, 12:38:21 PM »

Honestly, this is a worthwhile thread...'gets the old gray cells churning. Not only is grammar given short shift, in many of our educational settings today, but cursive writing has also 'dropped off' the academic radar screen.

The argument could be made that cursive writing was a necessity of the fountain/quill pen era and is [mostly] irrelevant in today's high tech world. If the opportunity presents itself, look through a ledger from the 19th or early 20th centuries...beautiful script to say the least. Given my previous statement, one would think 'printing' would be the new standard; but sadly that is not the case. Are we so intent with 'completion' that we ignore the end results?

Bachmann Trains has given us use of a spell checker that actually works (I have used other forums wherein the 'checker' was almost useless). Why isn't it used for every post? The forum also allows is to preview our posts (a useful feature). Why isn't it used more frequently? The sad truth is that most posters write from a 'stream of consciousness' - taking little time to review their: tone [Did I really want to say something that strong?], knowledge/truth [Do I really know that to be factual?],spellings, punctuation, and wording [Am I making sense to anyone outside my own head?].

Recently, I 'playfully chastised' (an oxymoron if there ever was one) a lad who posted an almost unreadable submission. I say, in public, that I am sorry to have even mentioned the subject - an act not done in an open assembly...some things are better done in private. However, the notion that ones disability would foster such language skills is pure nonsense. As a retired clinical psychologist, I have had the opportunity to observe many language embedded disabilities that were overcome (or positively coped) with a regimen consisting of desire and practice. Or could it be that we operate, in a society, where good enough has become the standard?

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I hope my past posts have been of use and will resolve to curb my acerbic pen in the future.

Regards,
Ray
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 12:47:58 PM by CNE Runner » Logged

"Keeping my hand on the throttle...and my eyes on the rail"
tac

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« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2010, 07:46:49 PM »

Honestly, this is a worthwhile thread...'gets the old gray cells churning. Not only is grammar given short shift, in many of our educational settings today, but cursive writing has also 'dropped off' the academic radar screen.

The argument could be made that cursive writing was a necessity of the fountain/quill pen era and is [mostly] irrelevant in today's high tech world. If the opportunity presents itself, look through a ledger from the 19th or early 20th centuries...beautiful script to say the least. Given my previous statement, one would think 'printing' would be the new standard; but sadly that is not the case. Are we so intent with 'completion' that we ignore the end results?

Bachmann Trains has given us use of a spell checker that actually works (I have used other forums wherein the 'checker' was almost useless). Why isn't it used for every post? The forum also allows is to preview our posts (a useful feature). Why isn't it used more frequently? The sad truth is that most posters write from a 'stream of consciousness' - taking little time to review their: tone [Did I really want to say something that strong?], knowledge/truth [Do I really know that to be factual?],spellings, punctuation, and wording [Am I making sense to anyone outside my own head?].

Recently, I 'playfully chastised' (an oxymoron if there ever was one) a lad who posted an almost unreadable submission. I say, in public, that I am sorry to have even mentioned the subject - an act not done in an open assembly...some things are better done in private. However, the notion that ones disability would foster such language skills is pure nonsense. As a retired clinical psychologist, I have had the opportunity to observe many language embedded disabilities that were overcome (or positively coped) with a regimen consisting of desire and practice. Or could it be that we operate, in a society, where good enough has become the standard?

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I hope my past posts have been of use and will resolve to curb my acerbic pen in the future.

Regards,
Ray

Ray, this has been a very interesting post to read, especially for me, who has made at least 50% of my full-time military occupation out of multiple language skills, both written and spoken.  I agree with everything that you have written, but would also point out something that you did not mention.  The person that we both felt needed a good poke with a sharp stick - disabled or not- has failed to come up with the goods with regard to the first post that he made - he has not followed up the initial request he made for information, but has stopped his search for information and gone on the ultra-defensive an obnoxious comment. 

He totally ignored my post and the suggestions I made in it that would have helped us to help him, and then almost immediately began another thread on a totally different subject.

As a retired clinical psychologist, what is your take in that?

...and while we are at it, let's not forget that the spell-checker is there for anybody to use, disabled or not.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
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poliss

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« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2010, 09:56:49 PM »

A Little Poem Regarding Computer Spell Checkers...
 
Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
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rogertra


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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2010, 10:00:57 PM »

I give up on spilling a gramer cuase i work for a skool distrik in a non teeching roll and sea how kids right and spill an sadly adults too so now it do not bovver me any more lyke it used two.  Wink
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poliss

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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2010, 10:16:05 PM »

If an English professor puts a comma before an 'and' what hope is there for the rest of us?

"Paul Budra, an English professor....."Punctuation errors are huge, and apostrophe errors.""

His whole sentence is ungrammatical as apostrophes are punctuation marks, or should that be tautologous?  Grin
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poliss

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« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2010, 10:25:20 PM »

Oh dear, I fell into the trap too. It should be 'professor of English', not English professor.  Shocked
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pdlethbridge
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« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2010, 10:41:54 PM »

somebody get a rope Grin Grin Grin
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NarrowMinded


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« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2010, 10:43:20 PM »

For some reason that poem reminded me of when I was in china. I had several young workers eager to practice their English with me, I had to laugh when one of them asked me if I needed him to "activate the illumination device". (turn on the light)

NM
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tac

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« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2010, 05:55:10 AM »

For some reason that poem reminded me of when I was in china. I had several young workers eager to practice their English with me, I had to laugh when one of them asked me if I needed him to "activate the illumination device". (turn on the light)

NM

In Gulf War 1, there was a measure of unintelligibility in the 'mil-speak' used by certain elements of the USMC.  One such gentleman confungled us all by constantly referring to the 'terrestial/oceanic interface'.

He meant 'beach'.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
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Woody Elmore

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« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2010, 10:39:27 AM »

When the weather gets warm I will walk my dog along the terrestrial/oceanic interface and at night I will be sure carry a portable illumination device.

Isn't English fun? Let's not forget my favorite book on the subject: "How to Rede and Spell Gud"
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Jhanecker2

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« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2010, 12:31:38 PM »

It is a marvelous construction it can be used like a warhammer and also like a rapier at the same time . Long may it thrive .  John II
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 08:15:41 PM by Jhanecker2 » Logged
Michigan Railfan


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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2010, 05:05:36 PM »

I totally and completely agree with the article. I am 13 and use Facebook and text frequently and use Myspace less frequently and still maintain great grammar and spelling skills, in fact, I've been punlished twice. The people mentioned in the article are the kids doing drugs, drinking alcohol, skipping class, excessive consumpiton of energy drinks, etc at age 13! They are also the people that wear clothes by companies like Murder One Clothing and DGK or something to that effect. I absolutely HATE those people because they are the ones who make teachers mad and ruin our great country.

I'm 13 too. My grammar is alright, better than most people in my school. All the kids these days don't even care about school. Its only about popularity. Also, 3 people in my school this year have been suspended for drugs in school. What ever happened to the good ole' days? School is now a popularity contest instead of a place to learn.
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morrisf

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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2010, 05:29:42 PM »

The problem with college students today is that 80% of them can't write properly and the other 30% can't do math.
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