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Author Topic: DCC reverse loop wiring  (Read 6197 times)
Keusink

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« on: July 27, 2010, 03:00:25 PM »

New to DCC. I have two reverse loops. Will plan on auto reversers.
I will be isolating separate blocks, and each reverse loop will be isolated. My purpose for blocking is to identify sections in the event of a short..

Does the auto reversing wiring undo the isolation of the blocks on either side of the insulated track joiners?

One reverse loop is created by a single crossover leading into it. Can someone confirm for me that the insulating connectors go at the intersection of the turnout sections creating the crossover?

Hope this makes senseThanks in advance. Chris
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Nathan

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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 05:52:06 PM »

Information on 'auto reverse units' is available on line that should help you.

http://tonysdcc.com/products/type_powerprotect.htm
http://digitrax.com/prd_powerman_ar1.php
http://www.lenz.com/products/index.htm

All have on-line or pdf manuals available.

If these do not help then let us know.
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ebtbob


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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 07:05:15 PM »

Good Evening,

     One thing to remember is that only a certain portion of the whole reverse loop has to be controlled by the reversing module.   This section is called the reversing section.   This length of track should be longer than your longest train.    I have found that it is a good practice to make the reversing section as short as possible so that more than one train can be in the reverse loop at the same time.    Note I said ....in the reverse loop.   You cannot have more than one train in the reversing section at the same time.
      On my On30 railroad,  the reverse loop I have is over 20 feet long but the reversing section is only approx. 10-12 feet long.
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Bob Rule, Jr.
Hatboro, Pa
In God We Trust
Not so much in Congress
GATSME MRRC - www.gatsme.org
jward


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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 07:41:58 PM »

One reverse loop is created by a single crossover leading into it. Can someone confirm for me that the insulating connectors go at the intersection of the turnout sections creating the crossover?

Hope this makes senseThanks in advance. Chris

i assume that you have to go through this particular switch when entering and exiting this loop? if so, you can save yourself the cost of an autoreverser by powering this switch with a switch motor that has 2 sets of contacts. a tortoise, or an atlas snap relay will do the trick much cheaper than the cheapest auto reverser.


i will try to find a diagram of the wiring and post it. i know it's online somewhere but i can't find it right now.....
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
Jim Banner

Enjoying electric model railroading since 1950.


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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 10:49:41 PM »

Jeffery, here is a diagram of what you were talking about:



And the article it appears in is here:

http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/loop/loop.html

Bob, I believe you can have more than one train in a reverse loop at the same time.  You just cannot have one entering at the same time the other one(s) is/are leaving.  And it helps if the trains are going the same direction around the loop.

Jim 
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Growing older is mandatory but growing up is optional.
Keusink

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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 02:52:43 PM »

Dear All who responded:
My set will have a crossover, and a second track joins into the loop. Say, in Jim's diagram, there was another track  creating the loop to the top of the diagram, with a crossover between parallel tracks. Without the crossover, it would be a loop, but not a reverse loop.

Since I will be creating power districts using multiple bus wires, I thought I would make the loop a power district. The loop has probably 12 linear feet in it. I wondered whether using an auto reverser would destroy the integrity of the loop power district?

I have already bought AR-1's, and the turnouts are to be operated by tortoise. As you can see, I have enough knowledge to be dangerous, but not enough to be competent. Nor will my computer skills allow me to draw it. Imagine two parallel tracks with a crossover. The north track loops back to the south track, and trains can use the crossover to choose the direction of travel around the loop by using the crossover or not using it. Do the insulating track joiners go in the middle of the crossover? Will the loop remain a separate power district with the AR-1?

Chris
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NarrowMinded


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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2010, 03:27:15 PM »

Let me see if I understand what you have... You really just have half an oval with a cross over connecting from one side to the other? If this is the case Jims drawing will still work so long as the track discribed by you and not shown in Jims drawing is a dead end, if it connects to the existing track shown it would also need gaps to isolate it.


NM
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Keusink

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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2010, 04:13:04 PM »

Isn't the English language fun?  I would liken this scenario to a dogbone with a single crossover in the middle. I use insulated joiners rather than gaps, but the question is: Do the gaps go in the crossover? Also. if I wanted to isolate each end of the dogbone into a separate power district, does the auto reverser (which wires to both sides of the gap) eliminate my isolated district?
Sorry to be so unclear about what I am asking.

Chris
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OldTimer


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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2010, 04:58:39 PM »

If I understand your description, you need two sets of gaps.  One set can be in the crossover, or it can be back away from the crossover.  The other set needs to be at the other end of the reversing section, however far down the track that is.  The reversing section doesn't have to be the entire loop, as others have noted, but it does need to be at least as long as your longest train.  If you are dividing your dogbone into two power districts,  one district must contain the reverse loop plus enough more track for the autoreverser to monitor, plus any other contiguous track you wish.  The second district would be all the remaining track..  If you make the crossover a double crossover, we can all totally confuse ourselves and you too!  LOL  Actually, wiring a double crossover in a dogbone is not any harder than a single one.
Old Timer
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Just workin' on the railroad.
Keusink

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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2010, 05:24:05 PM »

First Prize to Oltimer! That's it! I'm so excited! Thank you.

I'll need that separate district, because most of the loop is under a mountain. Where I can't see it. So that is where the short will occur.
Guaranteed.

Chris
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Doneldon

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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2010, 09:48:40 PM »

Keu-

Be sure to insulate or gap both rails on both ends of your reversing section.  One rail is not enough.

                                                                                -- D
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NarrowMinded


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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2010, 10:38:29 PM »

Good grief... Why dint ya say it was a dog bone Tongue

Glad one of the guys could help ya
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Keusink

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« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2010, 04:55:09 PM »

Dear Narrow

It isn't a dogbone. A dogbone is the closest thing to it. Its parallel tracks about 4 inches apart which create a loop, with a single crossover between the two tracks. I guess you could call it a really SKINNY dogbone

Now that we have the insulated gap and power section issues resolved, any suggestions on where the bus and feeders go on the reverse loop? I presume the buswire can come off a terminal busbar, and the feeders begin immediately after the first gap and end at the end of the loop?

I have the Kalmbach book on wiring, but it doesn't address more than a basic reverse loop.

Chris
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jward


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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2010, 06:05:26 PM »

feeders can go anywhere in a particular block/ power district. i'd place them about every 6 feet, with one at or near the center of the block.

basic reverse loop wiring is the same no matter what the configuration of the loop. just remember that every track which enters the loop section muct be insulated on BOTH rails.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
OldTimer


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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2010, 06:13:24 PM »

What you have IS a basic reverse loop.  If you think about it, gradually moving the two parallel tracks apart would pull the crossover apart and eventually result in an oval with one turnout on each side connected by a cutoff.  The principle is the same, regardless of the shape of the reversing section.

The subject of placing feeders is rather "subjective."   I think that most folks put feeders every 6 to 10 feet.  You can make the bus by taking apart some 14 awg Romex and use  20 awg for the feeders.    You can join the feeders to the bus with solderless "suitcase" connectors.  Feeders can be connected to the track by soldering or by using terminal sections or rail joiners with feeders already attached--check the Atlas site.  If you aren't familiar with soldering, it's not hard.  The secrets are a hot, tinned tip on the iron, clean surfaces and rosin (NOT acid) flux.  Good luck and good railroading.  
OT
  
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