Circuitron Tortoise Switch Machine

[John Honeck Sr]

Can the Tortoise machines be used on Bachmann Turnouts? If yes, are there any articles with pictures/instructions available? I have both DCC controlled and remote controlled switches. I'm thinking on converting just the non DCC switches with the Tortoise. Does this make any sense?

[Jhanecker2]

I am sure you can probably use the Tortoise Switch but I am curious why You replace integrally  mounted  solenoid switches  with slow motion motor switches that have to be mounted  beneath the table.  They are easier to utilize on track without roadbase like Atlas , Walters , Peco , etc.  that normally don't  come equiped with switch motors . I will have to checkout where you would have to drill the slot to insert the wire to throw the points .   John   II

[ebtbob]

John,

      The short answer to your question is yes,  you can use the Tortoise to move the points on your Bachmann turnouts.   You will have to determine where you want the wire on the Tortoise to be connected to the point throw arm of each turnout.    Mounting these machines under the table can be an adventure.   If you go this route,  the first thing to know is make the hole in the board,  foam,  or whatever the wire will go up through an oval shape instead of round.   Secondly,  put some double faced tape on the bottom of the Tortoise to help hold it place while trying to center it under the hole so that the range of motion on the wire moves the points completely in both directions.   Once you have the Tortoise located,  leave it in place with the tape and put the  screws in each corner to secure it,  that is assuming you mount it to wood.   If mounting to foam......good luck.

[Jim Banner]

Mounting switch machines on or under foam can be a lesson in pain and frustration or it can be straight forward.  Screws, of course, do not hold in foam.  And gluing a switch machine to foam only restrains it from moving laterally.  It does not restrain if from tilting.  So the switch machine may sit there happily rocking itself back and forth with no motion left to throw the switch.

One solution that works is to glue a piece of plywood to the foam and mount the switch machine on that.  The piece should be 6" square or larger but does not need to be very thick.  I have used 1/8" Baltic Birch Plywood and as long as you do not over tighten the screws, it works quite well.  If you tend to be a bit heavy handed with the screw driver, or cannot get Baltic Birch plywood in your area, use 1/4" regular plywood.  Before mounting the switch machine, glue the plywood firmly in place and let the glue dry thoroughly.  If the surface of the foam is flat, the glue layer will be thinner and dry faster.  So if your foam is too thick to accommodate the Tortoise throw wire, and you have to remove some foam to raise the plywood closer to the rails, use a router to get a flat surface or be prepared to wait a long time for the glue to dry.  The type of glue doesn't seem to matter - use whatever you normally use for sticking foam to wood.  Once the wood is firmly in place, mount the switch motor as described by ebtbob.

No router and no chance to borrow one?  Got some supports in the way?  It is also possible to mount the piece of plywood flush with the top of the foam.  Cut an undersized hole all the way through the foam, then cut a rebate (a sort of ledge) all around the hole for the plywood to sit on.  Glue the plywood to this ledge.  A 5" x 5" hole with a 1/2" wide rebate around it seems to be about right for a 6" square of plywood.

Jim

[jward]

jim mentioned a potential problem whereby the actuatiing rod is too short to reach through the table. this is easly remedied by replacing the rod with a length of piano wire. use the pattern on the tortoise's instruction sheet to bend one end to shape, mount the motor, and trim the on\ther end of the wire to fit. you can also use a stiffer piece of piano wire if the switch has too much resistance in it for the original throw rod.

another situation jim mentioned was the mounting of the tortoise at a location away from the switch because of layout benchwork being in the way. in this case, it is possible to use a stiff piece of piano wire to make an "L" shaped throw rod. mount the tortiose in the normal way where you have room. the vertical part of the throw rod is fed through a hole in the roadbed and attatched to the tortoise. the horizontal part then runs along the top of the roadbed to the switch. the end result looks like the old rods used by the real railroads to throw switches from an "armstrong" tower, which were common in the steam era.

[Jhanecker2]

You will also have to remove the installed solenoid switch machine to get to the linkage to connect the wire from the Tortoise . Question to Jim Banner : Will John be able to use the Bachmann Turnout Control momentary switch or will he have to wire in a different type of
switch ?

[Tylerf]

The momentary switches won't work, because the tortoise needs constant power to work, and it switches by reversing polarity rather than a sudden pulse of power.you'll need a dpdt switch and the tortoise will have instructions on how to wire it properly.

[Jim Banner]

In general, I agree with Tylerf.  The only exception would be if he wanted to operate the Tortoise machine from more than one place on the layout and he wanted the position of the turnout control to correspond to the direction the points are thrown.  Then he could connect up the controls backward i.e. instead of one power source connecting to one or the other solenoid connection, he would use one motor output connecting to one or the other power source.  The power sources would be dc but of opposite polarity.  John would also have to remember to hold the control closed long enough for the points to complete moving.

Having said all that, he would be better off using two D.P.D.T. toggle switches in series with one mounted at each location.  The direction of the handles would no longer correspond to the position of the points, but he could use one set of S.P.D.T. contacts built into the Tortoise to change the colours of a set of signals and/or to operate bicolour LEDs or pairs of LEDs mounted near each toggle switch.  Not only would he have working signals but also he would not have to worry about how long it took the points to move.

Operating a turnout from multiple locations makes sense if you use walk around control and don't want to be tied down to one place by a control panel.  It is easy with solenoid type switch motors and almost as easy with stall motor controls like the Tortoise.  In both cases, the number of control locations is unlimited.

Jim

[John Honeck Sr]

Thank You for the information, if there is anything else, I will thank You in advance. John

[jward]

what tyler said is not exactly true, though it is the conventional wisdom. no offense intended tyler.......

i have used momentary type switches to control tortoise motors. there are several ways to do this.

the simplest way is to use the switch control box with the two push buttons. in this kind, the center wire of the three at the top of the switch box acts as the common return and is connected to one of the outermost terminals of the tortoise.....the outer two terminals are each connected to a diode, which are set up in opposite polarity to each other. the loose ends of the diodes are connected together, and connected to the other end termnal of the tortoise. to operate this, you push the button to throw the switch just like with a standard switch motor. but instead of releasing the button, you hold it down until the tortoise motor stalls out. properly adjusted, there is enough torque in the tortoise gearbox to hold the switchpoints in place. i did several of these installations, and points drifting under the train was never a problem, even though there was no power applied to the motor.

the other variation involves using an atlas snap relay to throw the tortoise. using this method you wire the tortoise as before, but the diodes go to the a & b terminals of the snap relay, the common connection from the tortoise, and the C terminal of the snap relay are connected to the power supply. the three end terminals of the snap relay are connected to the switch control box just like a standard switch motor.

both these method will only work with ac power.

[Jhanecker2]

I believe their are instructions and pictures in one of the Model Railroad Books by Kalbach : "Trackwork  & Lineside Details"  for installing Tortoise Machines.  See if you can find a copy at your local library .  Good Luck !!! John II