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Author Topic: 5 Bachmann related simple questions  (Read 11883 times)
trainstrainstrains

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« on: November 16, 2014, 06:04:32 PM »


4 of these were left unanswered in previous threads I posted and  1,  the last one is new. I hope someone can help me with the answers:
Q 1. Best glue for Bachmann plastic and best glue for Bachmann to other plastic.
Q 2. Little advice from members on lubrication of Shay and 4 0 6. I saw on a youtube video someone  say car  motor oil works better on plastic gears than specialized products?
Q 3. How to replace damaged nylon toothed gear wheel on wheel axle of a 406 chassis and where to find a new wheel.
Q 4. Middle pair  of drive wheels on both my 4 6 0 chassis do not touch the rails, they stay constantly 1 cm above. It would seem that since both chassis exhibit the same characteristics it is either deliberately so or a general construction defect.
Q. 5. I bought a Dallee sound card with sound for my 38 ton two truck Shay, I removed the fuel bunker according to instructions to access the main PC board. For the simple installation I want The Dalle card needs only be connected to the right and left rail pickups. So which connectors on the PC card are these?

Thank you for your help.
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Chuck N

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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2014, 06:48:44 PM »

Regarding questions 2 and 3. If you have  4-0-6, you have a bigger problem.  No drive wheels means no go.

Seriously, on your last question.  I'm no expert, but I don't think it makes much of a difference for sound.  If you reverse the direction of the engine, change polarity on the track, left becomes right and right becomes left.

Chuck
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trainstrainstrains

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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2014, 07:30:30 PM »

Correction, I ment 4-6-0.
The PC card in the Shay is quite complex, many unmarked  connectors, many colored wires and electrical components, two connectors in there must be the right ones.
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Seaboard Air Line Fan

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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2014, 07:44:29 PM »

The Annie I recently bought had some broken parts, I fixed them with MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone).  It works well on styrene and so far on whatever the Annie is made of.  I bought a quart can of it at a local hardware store.  It'll take paint off in a hurry and well dissolve styrene if left in a bath of it too long, makes a good putty though for filling holes  Grin
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armorsmith


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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2014, 09:10:43 PM »

3T,

Let me see what I can do.

1. Best glue for Bachmann plastic and best glue for Bachmann to other plastic.

There are two methods of joining plastics. One is what you refer to as a glue. The second is solvent welding. SAL Fan touched on the second method. As he mentioned, MEK is a good solvent for many plastics. A second is Acetone. Both are solvents / cleaners and work well for de-greasing metal parts for painting as well. As a solvent weld product, they effectively melt the surfaces of the two parts together. It will take a few moments holding the parts in alignment for the solvent to do it's job. As for glues, there are not many that will adhere to the smooth surfaces of plastics. The only other products I would recomment would be either epoxy or ACC cement.

2. Little advice from members on lubrication of Shay and 4 0 6. I saw on a youtube video someone  say car  motor oil works better on plastic gears than specialized products?

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, use motor oil on plastic parts. You can use automotive lubricants so long as they clearly state "Save for use on plastics" on the label. I personally use a white lithium grease for that purpose.

3. How to replace damaged nylon toothed gear wheel on wheel axle of a 406 chassis and where to find a new wheel.

There are no replacement gears available, to my knowledge, for the 4-6-0 line of locomotives. Bachmann has chosen to not offer any sort of replacement part or assembly for the nylon gears that fail. If you wish a permanent fix, I would recommend going over to either Large Scale Central or My Large Scale forum and locating Barry Olsen of Barry's Big Trains.  He can supply you a complete bullet proof chassis that will run forever. Another possible alternative is North West Short Line. I am not sure they have a replacement gear, but they may. They have for other Bachmann locomotives.

4. Middle pair  of drive wheels on both my 4 6 0 chassis do not touch the rails, they stay constantly 1 cm above. It would seem that since both chassis exhibit the same characteristics it is either deliberately so or a general construction defect.

Consider that the chassis of the Bachmann 4-6-0 is a rigid affair. There is no vertical motion on any axle, and definitely no equalization. Combine this with the ability of the 4-6-0 to negotiate 4 foot diameter (2 foot radius) curves and I hope a picture begins to become clear. I am a professional mechanical designer and fully understand the logic in play. Notice that the middle driver is a 'blind' driver, no flange. This is done to eliminate the binding that would occur if there was a flange on that driver and then attempt to negotiate such tight curves. Should the drive have been designed with an equalized suspension, the center blind driver would have dropped off the rail head on such a tight curve and again bound the locomotive up. I would believe that the minimal clearance you are referring to is both deliberate and necessary to the operation of the locomotive in it's intended environment.

As I have the older 36T two truck Shay and have never opened mine up I cannot help there. However a word or warning here. The Dallee sound card is designed for a two cylinder locomotive, 2 chuffs per revolution. A Shay locomotive has three cylinders requiring 6 chuffs per revolution of the crankshaft. Depending on how you intend to trigger the chuff trigger you may not get the sounds you are looking for.

I hope I have been able to assist you in your quest for information. Happy Railroading!

Bob C.
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trainstrainstrains

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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2014, 09:59:24 PM »

Thank you so much, your answers are very enlightening. I telephoned Dallee before buying the soundboard , they have many soundboard variations, each for a specific locomotive sound. For the Large scale Bachmann  38 ton two truck Shay they recommended soundboards "Shay #911 for track power,  or #738 for DCC, or remote control.  I bought the #911 since track power , no DCC nor remote is what I want. I hope it has the right sound as they say it does  at Dallee.
I still hope someone will tell me where on the PC board to attach the two wires from the Dallee soundboard, I do not understand  wiring  diagrams so I hope a photo or layman's description will be given.
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2014, 10:17:23 PM »

TTT

Slow down a little and try not to take on too much at a time.   I learned the hard way that trying to do two or three complex projects at a time can be difficult and stressful possibly ruining ones enjoyment of the hobby.  Focus on one project and work on it till you have success, and it will help you gain confidence.  
When taking something apart, take photos as you go for reference later.  Also bag the small parts and screws as you go marking the bags with a number and note about it. Work in reverse order when reassembling. You will be glad you did and it will keep you from losing parts or using the wrong screw.

Q1  On the styrene body parts, say a crack in the cab roof you can use any liquid cement designed for styrene.  Some of the plastic parts are made of a slick engineering plastic( delrin). Delrin is very difficult to repair and is slick and slippery, I have had some success using epoxy after roughing up the slick plastic, but for delrin parts I usually just replace them. delrin to styrene is also very difficult, also use epoxy or replace.  I almost always replace broken parts.  Broken 4-6-0 appear on Ebay from time to time, try to pick one up for parts.

Q2  Do not use petroleum based oils as they eventually eat plastic and destroy it. Use only plastic compatible oils and greases.

Q3  There were 6 different chassis on the 4-6-0 so it is hard to say without knowing which version you have.  it is most likely ver2 3 4 or5. The link below shows how to change a gear on a different locomotive but the procedures are basically the same.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,19904.0.html

I posted a separate topic on chassis identification, it may help you identify what you have.

If you have a Big Hauler 4-6-0, it is best to just change out the entire chassis. A whole new chassis is only $30 direct from Bachmann.  Here is one example:

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_69_148&products_id=4093

By the time you find an aftermarket gear supplier such as Northwest Shortline NWSL order the gear, and pay shipping  you will spend close to the cost of the new chassis and still have an old chassis with a one new gear and other older gears which may have damage as well.  Save your self a lot of trouble and get a new chassis.  Everyone I have advised to do this have been very happy with the decision because the chassis you buy for $30 is a brand new factory assembled smooth running trouble free Version 5 chassis.

If you buy on Ebay you never know what chassis you will get and the older versions had issues that were all resolved in the new version 5 chassis.

Q4 deliberate(not sure why) but it helps on supertight curves and improves tracking.


Q 5 I would not work from the board,  trace the wires up from the trucks and tap into them rather than the board.  If you must connect directly to the board, you will need to refer to the wiring diagram.  At first glance the wiring diagram seems very complex. The best way is to start at the pickup wires on the truck and trace them to the board.  Using a colored pencil to mark the line really helps with the tracing. The wire colors are noted on the diagram as well use the same color of pencil if you can.

Cheers & Beers!!!

Loco Bill



 
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
tac

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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2014, 07:49:37 AM »

TTT - if you have a centre drivewheel that is positioned 1cm above the track then you have one serious problem.  I just measured mine, and found the gap to be  just over 1.6 millimeteres - nowhere near the 10 millimetres you say that you have.

Have I missed something here?

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
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tac

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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2014, 07:51:52 AM »

The Annie I recently bought had some broken parts, I fixed them with MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone).  It works well on styrene and so far on whatever the Annie is made of.  I bought a quart can of it at a local hardware store.  It'll take paint off in a hurry and well dissolve styrene if left in a bath of it too long, makes a good putty though for filling holes  Grin

Wow!  What it must be like to live in a Free country!  Here in UK it's sold as 'Plastic Weld' in a tiny glass bottle for around $9.  The store clerk will only sell you one at a time, too.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
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trainstrainstrains

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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2014, 08:44:59 AM »

Apologies,  I meant 1mm not 1cm, I must proof read more carefully.
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trainstrainstrains

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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2014, 09:04:11 AM »

Is acetone also sold one at a time for $9 in the  UK? Or is it less effective than MEK?
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trainstrainstrains

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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2014, 09:57:49 AM »

I do have a slight dyslexia  problem,  lagonda for gondola, 4 0 6 for 4 6 0 , 1 cm for 1 mm... but it has improved  tremendously over the years, as a child my spelling in all languages was abominable, it is much better now, fortunately  this has no bearing on intelligence  or grammar which I personally consider more important.  My wife who also speaks several  languages fluently  has the same problem, we are both  fine art graduates proficient in classical  oil painting, although it seems contradictory it has been implied in studies of dyslexia that individuals who are very visually  oriented often have dyslexic tendencies, I believe this might be true. Again I must apologise  for wandering  off  the Bachmann mandatory subject but since this defect of mine has been pointed at repeatedly in this forum I felt an explanation  was appropriate.  I will proofread carefully  in the future.
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trainstrainstrains

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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2014, 11:04:13 AM »

Bill thank you, It will take me some time to absorb all the information in your answers and reference articles, I have already exchanged  a chassis  on a 4 6 0 , my Swanee River Special,  you helped me with that,  I know you are right about better exchange than fix , it's  just that everytime I see the discarded chassis from the Suwannee  River loco I get an urge  to fix it. It seems such a waste, but we must adapt to this consumer society.

How much better is the 6th generation 4 6 0 chassis  than the 5th ? You say most problems have been fixed on the 5th but it still has nylon gears. The 6th generation chassis  you say has an improved front car and metal gears, a great improvement over the 5th surely. So it is tempting to adapt the 6th generation chassis  to shells meant for the fifth, you mentioned this as being possible  and not difficult.  What exactly is involved in this adaptation and do you think the 6th gen chassis is sufficiently better to prefer it over the 5th generation when one needs to replace a 4th or older chassis?
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tac

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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2014, 12:22:57 PM »

Bill thank you, It will take me some time to absorb all the information in your answers and reference articles, I have already exchanged  a chassis  on a 4 6 0 , my Swanee River Special,  you helped me with that,  I know you are right about better exchange than fix , it's  just that everytime I see the discarded chassis from the Suwannee  River loco I get an urge  to fix it. It seems such a waste, but we must adapt to this consumer society.

How much better is the 6th generation 4 6 0 chassis  than the 5th ? You say most problems have been fixed on the 5th but it still has nylon gears. The 6th generation chassis  you say has an improved front car and metal gears, a great improvement over the 5th surely. So it is tempting to adapt the 6th generation chassis  to shells meant for the fifth, you mentioned this as being possible  and not difficult.  What exactly is involved in this adaptation and do you think the 6th gen chassis is sufficiently better to prefer it over the 5th generation when one needs to replace a 4th or older chassis?


I dunno about generations of Big Haulers and so-called 'Annies', but my original 'Annie', bought new when it came out, what, fourteen years ago [?] is still going strong with no issues whatsoever.  Guess I'm lucky, eh?

Mind you, I take good care of it.  It's interesting to show it, as I often do, haulings its train of five or six lit-up White Pass cars - all bought off **** for around $35 each, and then running that same train behind another company's loco that cost literally 30-times as much.

My 'Annie' remains a beauty, as a runner or a looker...

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

tac
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trainstrainstrains

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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2014, 02:15:50 PM »

REFERENTE Q #5.
Looking hard at the wiring diagram I see a very interesting note that states "#9 & #10 PCB connector for triggering customer's speaker module."  Is the Dallee sound card a speaker module? I suppose it probably is.
Looking even harder I see that a Red and an Orange wire  connect the wheel pickups on each truck to terminals on the PCB . Safer to connect the Dalle there perhaps? I'm being very careful because although I can weld OK I'm not confident with electronics, I can sometimes  mess things up without  realizing it. The Dallee card has scary warnings like: CAUTION Speaker wires must not contact anything else, this will damage S.C. and void guarantee. CAUTION Device can be damaged by static discharge.  I suppose it's just a matter of being cautious.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 02:18:24 PM by trainstrainstrains » Logged
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