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Author Topic: New guy and completely lost.  (Read 10966 times)
grumpyjim

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« on: January 04, 2015, 07:44:17 PM »

Long time HO guy who had to put the trains away due to moving. Recently acquired a Bachmann 9670 train set. A 4-6-0 steam engine, Pennsylvania tender and two different passenger cars. Got enough track to make a circle with small straights. Also a Basic Train Engineer ART-5480. I imagine this is an old set. Hooked everything up and doesn't work. No voltage at track and I pressed every button a couple of times.

I just want to set up an overhead track loop in my workshop. Individual train control is not needed.

Any hints on how to trouble shoot the controller. It lights up when plugged in, ansd the handset lights up when any button is pushed.

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

Grumpy Jim
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Chuck N

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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2015, 09:09:09 PM »

Get a volt meter and check out the output of your power supply, then we'll go from there.

Chuck
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 09:21:13 PM by Chuck N » Logged
grumpyjim

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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2015, 10:16:47 PM »

Will do.

It is my guess that the power supply can supply variable voltage to the track as controlled by the hand held. Instructions say attach power supply to track and push "fast". I assume that the track voltage is 0 until you push fast. Pushing fast does nothing. I used a battery voltage meter for 9v batteries and no change in track voltage.

As you suggested will use "real" voltmeter tomorrow.

Thanks.

P.S. I was just hoping to have a simple loop with constant voltage. (Realize I need controller to set voltage first.)
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Chuck N

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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2015, 10:33:33 PM »

I am not familiar with what you have, but most Large Scale trains use a variable DC power supply.  HO  power supplies usually top out at 12-14 volts.  Most Large Scale PSs go to 18-22 volts.  Also you will need one, for reliable operation that puts out more than one amp.  3 amps would be a useful minimum for a single motor engine and a few cars.  More amps are better.  Most of us use 10 or 15 amp power supplies.  I have a train that pulls about 7 amps. F3AB(2amps per engine, 1amp/motor) and 6 lighted streamliners (0.5 amp/car).

Grades and diameter of your curves will add to the power draw.

Chuck
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Wade Colyer

Lewistown,PA


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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2015, 11:24:22 PM »

Hi,

 You have to hold the fast or slow button down for a while for it to work. Here's a link about it.

http://personalweb.donet.com/~paulrace/trains/special_offers/power/t_e_basic.htm

Wade
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Seaboard Air Line Fan

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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2015, 02:26:22 AM »

What transformer are you using?

I'm currently using an ART-5470 Train Engineer Set (Transmitter is ART-5473, Receiver is ART-5471), it requires a 12-24 vdc filtered transformer (separate item).

I'm actually using an old power supply that came from a laptop computer.

Are the batteries fresh in the transmitter?

Even with the transmitter not connected to the track you should see a light blink on the transmitter.

Bob D.
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grumpyjim

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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2015, 12:50:23 PM »

TESTS SO FAR:

Disconnected wires from track. Hook up to digital multi-meter. Set on DC. Press FAST button. 20.6 DCV to track connectors. Both direction switches work. (<==  ==>) I see polarity reversed with either switch.

Using BASIC TRAIN-ENGINEER ART-5480.

Press and hold SLOW button. No change in voltage then goes to 0 DCV.

EMERGENCY STOP works. Immediately goes to 0DCV.

With voltmeter attached and reading 20.6 DCV, I connected to one locomotive wheel on each side of train. Scrapped wheels to get good connection. Reading 20.6 DCV, there is no movement of motor.

With any button push the little light comes on.



« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 12:52:20 PM by grumpyjim » Logged
Seaboard Air Line Fan

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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2015, 01:00:27 PM »

Could be nothing more than a burnt wire, but these things aren't simple to take apart/put back together to get to the motor to see if voltage is getting to it.

I got mine off E-Bay and I was going to take it apart anyway to repaint it.  It's a good thing because both wires to the pilot were burnt in two.  Rewired the pilot and all worked fine, but the engine was like a puzzle as far as assembly/dis-assembly goes.  Once knowing how it's done, it's not so bad.

The bottom cover plate can be removed, but I recall there's a couple of pipes that need to be removed and the 2 wiring pins that go from the pilot to the main wiring terminals can be tricky putting back in once the bottom plate is removed, but you should be able to get to the motor once it's out of the way.

Bob D.
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grumpyjim

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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2015, 01:02:34 PM »

Will remove bottom of locomotive to check wires.
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grumpyjim

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« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2015, 01:09:37 PM »

http://personalweb.donet.com/~paulrace/trains/special_offers/power/t_e_basic.htm

Smoother Power at Low Speeds - AristoCraft/Crest Train Engineer systems use something called "pulse width power" that delivers full voltage to the locomotive, even at slow speeds, so the trains run smoother. This also means you don't have to have your train "flying" around the track to keep it running like you do with some toy trains.

How can full power be given to the locomotive, if the voltage to the track has to be lowered to slow down???
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Chuck N

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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2015, 01:16:26 PM »

Since you have a meter check the resistance through the engine.  If there is a broken wire there should be infinite resistance.

I'm not familiar with your specific engine, but some Bachmann engines have a three position slide switch, LS-off-NMRA.  This switch is usually behind the smoke box door.  If you find it make sure it is not in the off position.  This switch changes the polarity to the motor.  Most Large Scale engines run in the direction of LGB engines (LS).  On NMRA the engine will run in the opposite direction to most large scale engines.

Does the headlight come when you apply power?

Chuck
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grumpyjim

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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2015, 02:13:49 PM »

No headlight.

Are the all six driver wheels AND all 4 pilot wheels powered?

Have 2 wire connector connected from tender to locomotive, (9 DC in tender), Found switch to turn on/off tender sounds. Can locomotive run without tender connected?

Will look for LS-off-NMRA switch.

Will run AMP test across driver wheels left and right sides.

All locomotive wheels except rear set of driver wheels show open circuit.

Thanks.
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grumpyjim

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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2015, 02:26:10 PM »

Found simple on off switch behind smoke box door. Was set to on. Worked switch back and forth several time. Still nothing.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 02:44:22 PM by grumpyjim » Logged
grumpyjim

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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2015, 04:03:25 PM »

OK, bottom plate off locomotive. All plastic gears intact. All wires seem fine and connected. Motor not seized. Noticed only front set and rear set of driver wheels (4-6-0) and rear set of pilot wheels draw power from the track. Driver wheels make contact with sides of driver wheels. Will further investigate this. I will clean inside of wheels for better contact.

Front set of drive wheels contain pulse switch for sound. Only makes short contact at 12 and 6 o'clock as the axle revolves. These wires run to tender to operate sound. All sound is controlled with 9 VDC battery. No track power to sound whatsoever. No track contacts on tender. So tender is not needed to operate locomotive. There are only sound wires going to tender. Wiring diagram shows two more wires to tender to operate tender light with track power. Not on mine.

Only have off/on switch behind smoke house door. Seems like no more secret switches.

Going to start fussing around with multi-meter. See what I can find.

This was to be just a simple setup. Hook it up. Run train in circle. Getting complicated.

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grumpyjim

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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2015, 04:19:10 PM »

Motor turns. Connectivity through motor. Connectivity from wheels to internal wiring. Looks like issue is beyond me. Combined with the TRAIN ENGINEER problem with the SLOW button, looks like I'm done. Can't win them all.

Anybody with ideas?Huh?
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