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| | |-+  DCC/Sound Card CVs and FX's for smoke/firebox/headlight f/r
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Author Topic: DCC/Sound Card CVs and FX's for smoke/firebox/headlight f/r  (Read 2430 times)
rdailey1202

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« on: April 16, 2018, 04:28:49 PM »

I installed a DCC/Sound decoder in a 3 truck shay. Everything works well operationally and sound wise. The installation itself seems fine.

In track power the smoke/firebox and lights work fine. In DCC mode they are all off. I already checked every document from Bachman/Tsunami and CVP Airwire I can find and do not see an answer.

What functions (fx's) or CVs control these items? They must be simply turned off.
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rdailey1202

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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 04:33:09 PM »

FYI the rest of the setup is an airwire converter60 and T5000 throttle with battery power. Everything else I can see works just fine.
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Greg Elmassian


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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 05:47:53 PM »

Press F0, the lights button...

what decoder did you use?

Greg

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Visit my site: lots of tips and techniques: http://www.elmassian.com
rdailey1202

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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 05:51:26 PM »

The Bachman OEM version that they sell at the Bachman Store.
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rdailey1202

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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 09:33:31 PM »

So I wonder if it's an issue between the T-5000 and the Bachman DCC card.

F0 should be lights. Nothing happens.
F1 should be bell. Works.
F2 should be whistle. Works.
F3 should be short whistle. Works.
F4 should be Steam Release. Works.
F5 should be nothing. Makes generator noise. Turbine wind up sound.
F6 should be smoke. Makes running water noise.
F7 should be dimmer. Makes coupler noise.
F8 should be mute. Works.
F12 makes some kind of air noise.

Bear in mind these are all stock Bachman components except for the Airwire installation. I did not mess up the Converter60 to Bachman DCC connections because a lot of things work correctly and there are only four wires to touch.

If I just got the headlight and smoke to work it would be a success. The rest is fluff anyway.
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StanAmes


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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 10:58:04 PM »

From your email am I correct that you installed the decoder yourself.

On the firemans side of the decoder are the power and motor connections in screw terminals.

Have you connected the power to connections to the Bachmann 3 truck board board or only to the Airwire?

On the engineers side of the decoder are the function connections which plug into the decoder.  You need to unplug this set of wires from the Bachmann board and plug it into the decoder  I assume this is plugged into the decoder?

On the rear side of the Bachmann 3 truck shay board are screw terminals.  I assume you followed the instructions which came with your shay to convert from DC to DCC operation?

Stan Ames






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rdailey1202

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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2018, 11:31:15 AM »

From your email am I correct that you installed the decoder yourself.   Yes

On the firemans side of the decoder are the power and motor connections in screw terminals.  Yes

Have you connected the power to connections to the Bachmann 3 truck board board or only to the Airwire? Only the Airwire. Then the Airwire outputs to the Bachman board.

On the engineers side of the decoder are the function connections which plug into the decoder.  You need to unplug this set of wires from the Bachmann board and plug it into the decoder  I assume this is plugged into the decoder? Yes

On the rear side of the Bachmann 3 truck shay board are screw terminals.  I assume you followed the instructions which came with your shay to convert from DC to DCC operation?   I only connected the two wires between the Airwire and the Bachman. I don't recall any instructions for doing anything. I thought it said it figured that out for itself. I will check the documentation again.
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StanAmes


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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2018, 12:50:31 PM »

The 3 truck shay was developed before Bachmann factored RC control into the design of their locomotives.  Later Spectrum locomotives have provided for RC control in the design of the electronics.

Take a look at how the connections are done in J1, J2, and J3.

i do not have the semantics for the electronics in the 3 truck shay but I suspect the reason the lights do not work may be because there is no power on the Bachmann 3 truck shay main board and/or no common between the Airwire and Bachmann boards.

When wired to the DCC decoder in track power mode the track power goes through the Bachmann board and then to the decoder. I suspect this power is being used by both the Bachmann board and the decoder.

I would hook up track power DCC per the instructions on the DCC sheet and check it out to ensure everything is working properly

I would then contact CVP to see if they had a app note for connecting AirWire to the 3 truck Shay using the Bachmann electronics.

Hope that helps

Stan





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rdailey1202

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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2018, 01:04:44 PM »

That actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

I remember seeing something documented about those jumpers now and I have to find it again. I have a feeling you are absolutely right.

I did email CVP last night as well so we'll see what they say. Meantime I can probably pursue this idea with a little research.
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rdailey1202

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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2018, 05:47:44 PM »

Looking at the wiring diagrams, everything that does not work goes through the six pin connector from the DCC board to the main board. The speaker does also that kind of messes the theory up but maybe I knocked it loose when I closed the tender cover up.

Find out tonight.
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rdailey1202

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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2018, 10:13:23 PM »

I believe I see the issue and it goes to what Sam was saying. Question is, since all the vendors are being very "safe"  or "useless" what to do. Their replies to a letter are manual pages. Thinking and knowing has not entered the conversation yet.

The output voltage from the Airwire board is 1.5vdc. That is what the DCC card gets. Voltage to the motors is ramped up on the DCC board but 1.5vdc is what is going in. Even with the T-5000 at speed 14, half speed, 1.5vdc goes in, the motors get 9vdc. I have photos of my VOM but 128KB isn't enough to post them.

Normally under track power the input would be 0 - 20vdc. That's when things work.

The Bachman/Soundtraxx DCC board is obviously split into a motor section which can ramp up voltage. Which maybe they count on being shared. But the Bachman Main PCB does not.

I think the thing to do is put direct battery 16.8vdc to J2 on the main board. Bachman would have to step up and reply to that however.

Flip side is if I burn it up it probably does not matter. It probably has to be replaced anyway like Larry shows in his posts. Which I like and have watched before.

Even with track powered DCC the input would be higher than 1.5vdc. It would be 0 - 20vdc. So that, I believe, is the issue.

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rdailey1202

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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2018, 10:15:16 PM »

I meant Greg Elmassian, not Larry. Sorry.
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rdailey1202

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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2018, 11:07:22 AM »

For anyone interested and informational purposes this is where I ended up.

The Bachman/Soundtraxx Manual clearly says the decoder requires 5vdc to power up its internal circuitry. The Airwire Converter60 seems to produce a constant 1.5vdc.

The functions that do not work all are controlled by the Bachman/Soundtraxx card and connect to the main board via the 8 pin connector.

So at 1.5vdc some things work, some don't. I cannot put voltage directly to the main board via jumper 2 because that would go to the motors which you don't want.

Bottom line is the mainboard and the Bachman stock DCC decoder just have to come out. With track powered DCC this would work fine but with a battery setup it just is not going to happen far as I can tell right now.
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rdailey1202

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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2018, 12:34:59 PM »

Final Entry for info sake.

I pulled the Bachman main board and sound card out. Replaced those with the Tsunami 4amp Sound decoder and matched it with the CVP Airwire Converter 60 and a T5000 throttle and it turned out great.

Easy to do it. Control and sound are great. I connected the front and rear lights to fof and for. Cab light to f3. The mathmatical draw for the smoke unit is 325ma if you measure the coil and voltage but connected it to both f5 and f6 just to be safe. Did not bother with the firebox lights.

Turned out absolutely great. Thanks for kicking this around with me while I thought it through.
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