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Author Topic: Grand Canyon Railway quiting steam  (Read 12691 times)
az2rail


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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2008, 11:48:34 AM »

 The park service is going to cut back on the amount of cars and buses allowed into the park at any one time. Many tourists will have to use the train if they want to see the canyon. Have you seen the price to ride the train? Also these people will need a place to stay, and eat. Looks like Williams will get a boost.

Bruce
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Yampa Bob

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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2008, 01:49:44 PM »

There's also a push by the "cheese and whiners" to designate our forests as Wilderness areas.  That means no vehicles, no excursion trains, not even snowmobiles in the winter.  Some used to allow horseback riding, but even that is being phased out.

The only way to see these beautiful areas is on foot.  That's fine for the hiker enthusiasts, but what about the people with handicaps.? 
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Frisco


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« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2008, 02:31:57 PM »

Thanks, for the link to the Williams news. Although it probaly won't go verry far I hope that every-one that wan'ts steam to stay sends them a email. Hope-fully if they get enough emails and their ridership goes down enough they will bring it back.
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pdlethbridge
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« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2008, 03:02:05 PM »

Your dealing with a 'green' company. It will never switch back to steam. Unless the railroad is sold and the new owners want steam, you'll never see steam there again.
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RAM

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« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2008, 04:15:09 PM »

The only green issue here was the back pocket.  The 20 jobs, s and the 113,000 gal. of diesel fuel.
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Dusten Barefoot

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« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2008, 08:30:58 PM »

Thats what you get for burrning oil in a steam engine. I am a advid coal person Grin. But the discontinual of steam on the line is very heart breaking. So I have no reason to visit the Grand Canyon now. And green my rear end. Im sick of the green. I want some nice coal smoke to fill my lungs.
Rock On!
Dusten
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Dusten
Frisco


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« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2008, 10:43:15 PM »

As promised here is the reaturn letter.                                                             Dear Mr. Marrs Thank you for your message expressing disappointment regarding Xanterra Parks & Resort's recent decision to eliminate the use of steam locomotives on the Grand Canyon Railway between Williams, Arizona and the Grand Canyon Depot.      It is obvios from your e-mail that nothing we say will convince you otherwise, but we want you to know that our decision was prompted byenvironmental considerations. The move was made to save a considerable amount of fuel and water and to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and air pollutants associated with steam engines.          Xanterra Parks & Resorts had been the recipient of over 50 awards for outstounding achievement for our commitment to environmental causes during recent years, including multiple awards from (more places than I have paience to type out). We do not think it is keeping with ou environmental mission to continue to operate steam engines based on the following.                            FUEL SAVINGS our steam locomotive uses appoximately 1,450 gallons of diesel fuel per day.Our diesel locomotive uses approximatly 550 per day.Thus switching from steam to diesel saves approximately 900 gallons per day of diesel fuel. If we run approximately 126 steam trips per year that would total 113,000gallons of diesel fuel saved per year.                                                            POLLUTION PREVENTION ASSOCIATED WITH STEAM LOCOMTOIVES  By removing steam locomotives from our operations we reduce pollution associated with maintenance  and operations of the steam train. This includes eliminating the use of : journal oil, steam oil, bearing oil,and more than 25 different kinds of boiler chemicals. Yhese petroleum products tend to leak onto the train tracks during operation and also become a waste product during routine maintenance of the trains. By contrast , our diesel locomotives capture any oily lubricants used during operation in designated tanks. That waste oil is burned for heat back at the maintenance shop.                   WATER SAVINGS   Eliminating steam locomtives  willsave approximately 1,200gallons of water per day .Using diesel instead of steam for the estimated 126 train trips per year will save 151,200 gallons of water.                      GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS AND CRITERIA AIR POLLUNTANT REDUCTIONS  Using diesel instead of steam will save 1,264 tons of CO2 emissions 1.1 tons of nitrogen oxides and 8.5 tons tons of sulfur oxides per year. Xanterra already uses ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel in its trains.This relatively new fuel contains 97% less sulfer than conventional diesel, reducing sulfer content from 500 parts per million to 15 parts per million.                                                                                                                 So while we certainly understand and appreciate your fellings regarding our decision to suspend operations of the steam engines, we hope the obve points will help you understand our decision. Finally, it is our intention to display the steam engines as living exhibits at the depot in Williams so that this and future  generations will be able to see and enjoy the story of steam locomotive, Fred Harvey, and the Santa Fe Railway's history of train travel into the Grand canyon. However this is one of several thoughts under consideration and no final decision regarding the two steam locomotives has been determined.       Thanks for writing Judi Lages
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PRRThomas11

Full steam ahead!


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« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2008, 11:51:58 PM »

This is very sad. I was fortunate enough to visit the GCRR this summer. When I looked inside the cab of the recently overhauled steam engine i saw that all of the gauges were red digital readouts rather then the way more common dial. The diesel put put way more emissions that the steam engine. When I saw the Alco leave it spewed out so much thick black exhaust it could be mistaken for a steam engine. They have four operational steam engines I believe, and that's four steam engine that will never run again. They could at least give them to another railroad that could really use them. Too bad.
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pdlethbridge
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« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2008, 11:55:31 PM »

They will save a bunch of money, thats why they call it a green company.
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kevin2083

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« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2008, 01:07:59 AM »

The thing I don't get is how they say they're saving water, like it's something that will put out pollution. I'm pretty sure that steam locomotives aren't the sole cause of so-called "global warming."  I, too,  am sick of all this 'green' and how EVERYTHING has to be 'green' or it's not accaptable in society. Even the laptop I'm typing on has something saying it's 'green'. But, right now I'm smelling the wonderful aroma of the neighbors who think it's a good idea to burn their horse manure, after it's been soaked in diesel, of course (it's their summertime tradition).
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« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2008, 01:29:25 AM »

I'm all for the environment... So maybe car usage should be regulated... Maybe trucking rates should be increased... If I stated what I really think is going on this would get severely political so I won't... Its a real shame, since Steamtown is barely scraping by on its income, and their steamers are due in for 5 year rebuilds soon... If 3713 and 26 aren't finished by then, Steamtown will be in the words of a good friend- "Dieseltown."
Anyways, once this country gets that Middle East Oil Deal, there will plenty for everyone... and lots of Green for those with stocks in Oil... Atleast until we run out of that and have to go and kill all the Alaskan Plants and Animals to quench our addiction...  Roll Eyes

Steam locomotives are the history. Steam Excursions shouldn't become History...

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Alex

glennk28

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« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2008, 01:41:10 AM »

Our loco,  YW 19, burns reclaimed motor oil --has to be treated to remove heavy metals, but then we can burn it.  Runs a nice clean stack--sometimes too clean.   gj
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Yampa Bob

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« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2008, 03:53:32 AM »

We have thousands of gas wells here, with one of the largest pipelines in the country.  The vegetation and animal population is better than ever before, due to required reclamation.  No animals were killed in the process.  In fact, many species of ground nesting birds, once almost gone, have returned in huge numbers due to the improvement in habitat.

Just setting the facts straight.

Back to steamers, I will miss them too, but we have to face facts. Grand Canyon RR has already made the decision, a million emails won't change that. Apart from the environment issue, they are in business to make a profit, and employees need their jobs.

Georgetown has been using a diesel and their business is thriving. However, as I mentioned, they plan to get 2 steamers back on line, having to renovate in house is a slow process.  Now that I'm retired I plan to visit the railroad often. (of course with side trips to Caboose Hobbies)  Cheesy
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 03:58:27 AM by Yampa Bob » Logged

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pdlethbridge
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« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2008, 04:04:04 AM »

There's a man who knows his priorities  Cool
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Yampa Bob

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« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2008, 04:42:09 AM »

Yup, I can't wait to get my hands on those AC4400, and Caboose Hobbies is awesome.

I may volunteer some time on the restoration. I've always wanted to kitbash a real Prairie.  Just kidding, but you should see the parts everywhere, looks like a huge kit. The one I really want to see progress on is their 1884 Porter 2-6-0. Heck, I would even pay them to let me work on it.  Cheesy
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Rule Number One: It's Our Railroad.  Rule Number Two: Refer to Rule Number One.
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