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| | |-+  Grand Canyon Railway quiting steam
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Author Topic: Grand Canyon Railway quiting steam  (Read 12693 times)
Dusten Barefoot

Determind to get some E.T.&.W.N.C On30 models


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« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2008, 11:43:21 AM »

Send'em to Strasberg, and let them run there. Why in the world would anyone let a beatiful item of history sit and rust in the weather. It is very dissopointing.
Dusten
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Paul W.

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« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2008, 12:39:21 PM »

My wife and I just watched on the travel channel "America by rail", and wouldn't you know there was the Grand Canyon RR, talking about how the "current owners" saved the RR, and put steam back in service for all to see and enjoy.

There are many more options they could have taken to "go green" other than eliminate steam from their roster.

The two can co-exist!
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Happy Steamin'

Paul
az2rail


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« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2008, 01:49:35 PM »

I am sure there is more too it. I don't know where Williams gets their water from for the engines, but I do know that water is in very short suppy in that area.
 If you want a glass of water in a reataurant up there, you have to ask for it. Flagstaff is in a battle for more water. Washing your car is frowned upon, and you can get a fine if you water your lawn at the wrong time of day, and for to long. I would not be suprised if Williams does not not have to truck in their water.

Bruce
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Dash-9

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« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2008, 03:09:03 PM »

i think this is very sad and i do not agree with the ides that the grand canyon rail road has made.  Angry and what I've been told the alco diesel gives more pollution than the 4 steam engine. so as i said before i think this is very sad  Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:07:23 AM by Dash-9 CSX » Logged

Guilford Guy


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« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2008, 03:15:29 PM »

If you think of all the things that Pollute, Steam Locomotives would be low in the List... Its not really how much per unit it pollutes. 1 Car pollutes less than 1 Steam Locomotive... But when you look at the Ratio of Cars compared to Steam Locomotives...
Look at it this way- If you completely restrict Automobiles, and only let the train run in there, the steamers WOULD be more eco friendly, but in today's world, no one wants to get out of their automobile, and the safety of the air conditioning and fast food in cup holders...
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Alex

Yampa Bob

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« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2008, 04:12:57 PM »

While we're at it, why not just eliminate all cars, trucks, buses, airplanes, motorcycles, factories, power plants, hair spray....then we could bring back the steamers in all their glory, along with stage coaches and penny candy bars.

Oh, let's also forget the handicapped or health impaired who need the convenience and security of their car, and wouldn't be comfortable or safe on a train.

Change is inevitable.  We can either live in the past, or look to the future.  I like steam locomotives as much as anyone but their time has passed.

This is interesting conversation, but aren't we just beating our heads against a stone wall?  Steam fans represent what percentage of the nation's population?

Someone might say "Well, I wouldn't walk across the street to ride a diesel train". So who are they hurting?  Not me, not the train lines, not the billions who couldn't care less about trains.  It's called  "cutting our nose off to spite our face."

I will ride any excursion train regardless of the loco used and thoroughly enjoy the experience.  The retired steamers will be preserved for future generations to see.
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SteamGene

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« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2008, 05:50:32 PM »


The solution would be to switch to coal - but that might be difficult to deliver in the quantity needed.  Another possibility is to use Bunker C, which is what oil fired locos used in the beginning. 
Gene
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RAM

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« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2008, 09:49:25 PM »

The sad thing is they are going to set these out on display to rot.  All of the tools and skill to restore locomotives are being lost. 
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Yampa Bob

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« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2008, 10:23:40 PM »

Some are simply too costly to restore to operating condition, the best to be done is keep them painted and clean.  Rio Grande #268 is now undercover, and other Historical Societies are putting locos inside or in shelters.

Of course, all this takes money.  If we truly care about preserving these locos, we need to dig into our own pockets, and make sizable donations to the effort. Otherwise we are just "blowing smoke".

I believe in "action", not "reaction".  If every steam fan donated $100 to $500 to their relevant society, we can make a difference. I did, how about the rest of you?

I agree they shouldn't be left at the mercy of the elements.
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PRRThomas11

Full steam ahead!


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« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2008, 04:10:23 PM »

If they're not running them, one of those would look really nice in my back yard Wink
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kevin2083

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« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2008, 12:17:08 PM »

this may seem a little random, but I figured out that I could have a scaled up HO 15" radius oval with two 9" straights (220 ft x 350 ft) in my backyard. I wish.

kevin
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ebtnut

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« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2008, 02:30:03 PM »

I suspect the underlying reasons for quitting steam have to do with the bottom line.  Steam is expensive to operate and especially to maintain.  Diesels are much like cars--something fails, you go get a replacment part.  With steam, you may very well have to MAKE the part.  The "green" thing makes for good PR, and there is some truth in it.  Water in the southwest is a precious commodity.  Steam engines use thousands of gallons of water a day in full operation.  Diesels have closed cooling systems like cars and trucks.  And steam engines are only about half as efficient as diesels in operation.  And whether its Bunker C or diesel, its still oil, and at $110/bbl, it's expensive too.  Converting back to coal isn't that simple.  You would likely need to cast new grates, insert the grate hanger equipment, install shaker bars, etc.  And the sparks from cinders are much more likely to set fires along the desert-dry right-of-way. 

Don't get me wrong on this--I'll go ride/fix/run a steam loco any chance I get.  One just has to recognize today's realities.
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Yampa Bob

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« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2008, 03:03:05 PM »

Future generations won't appreciate our railroad heritage, nor will they care what happens to surviving steamers on display.

I foresee custom built 300 hp "green goats" in the 44 ton style for better visibility, with bright excursion colors to attract tourists.  GLRR has a rebuilt 20 ton that's very attractive, and a couple of small "critters".  By putting a critter on each end, they wouldn't have to run around for the return trip.

By replacing the generator with lots of batteries, the engine could be a small propane or gas powered battery charger, similar to hybrid autos.  Whisper quiet and no pollution.

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rogertra


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« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2008, 05:39:34 PM »

What surprises me is that the U.S.A., with it's much bigger railfan base has so few "heritage" railways run mainly by volunteers with a core staff, management, a couple of engine crews, maintentance people, both plant and rolling stock, on hand to support the volunteers who do most of the operation.

Look what happened to that GTW 4-6-2 back in the 1970s,(?) cut up for scrap for unpaid bills.  That would never have happened in the UK, for example.  Why railfans in the so called "richest country in the World" let that happen still baffles me.

In the UK, there are dozens upon dozens of steam hauled, volunteer run, "heritage" railways.  The volunteers restore steam from scrap yard condition, overhaul their working steam locos every ten years (UK law.  A steam locos boiler must be removed and overhauled every ten years max), lay track, clear rights of way, rebuild bridges and culverts, lay new track, build buildings, operate steam locos, act as "guards" (Conductors) signalmen (Towerr operators), signal maintainers, station staff etc., etc.. In fact, practically every job required to run a steam railway.

Why not in North America?
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Dusten Barefoot

Determind to get some E.T.&.W.N.C On30 models


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« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2008, 08:07:32 PM »

Greeddy greedy people. Oh and let us not forget the average freakin' green man or portester. Our country has alot of greedy people looking to make a dime, not a great tour. Angry
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I know I pester the hell out of everone over a 4-6-0
E.T.&.W.N.C, TWEETSIE, LINVILLE.
www.tweetsierailroad.com
http://www.johnsonsdepot.com/crumley/tour1.htm
#12 and 10-Wheelers
Black River & Southern
Rock On & Live Strong
Dusten
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