On30 couplers

[Swiny]

I am just getting statred into On30.  I have collected a large amount of O scale (Lionel, MTH & K-Line) equipment over the past 4-years, but never created a layout because of a growing concern about the look of three rail track.  I am now looking to sort out all of my questions before pulling the trigger on a change.

Your On30 engines and rolling stock come equipped with E-Z Mate Mark II couplers, which I presume are the same as HO couplers.  Since On30 this is 1:48 scale, can I easily convert the couplers to a product with larger knuckles such as Kadee's On30 or O guage couplers?  Will these fit into your existing gear box without a major retrofit?

Thanks . . . . Swiny

[Tim]

Swiny

The short answer is NO!

The coupler pocket height is too low on the 0n30 equipment to accept an 0n3
coupler. While it is not difficult to convert the rolling stock, by replacing the coupler
pockets, converting the loco's in many cases will require major renovation.

Tim L. Anders
Souderton, PA

[ebtnut]

Swiny:  Tim's answer is mostly right.  Some of the On30 equipment that Bachmann has brought in recently has two coupler pockets--a lower one for the EZ-Mates, and a higher one that is about the right height for an On3 coupler.  Now, you can't drop a Kadee 803 into the Bachmann coupler pocket--it will take some work.  The first real question to ask, though, is are you going to stick with On30 as it is?  If so, you can go with the EZ-Mates.  If you want to be compatible with On3 equipment, then you'll have to be prepared to so some cutting and fitting to mount theKadee's on your rolling stock at the right height.  FWIW, the EZ-Mates will couple with the Kadee 803's. 

[renniks]

Swiny,

  Yes the On30 is 1:48 but it is also narrow gauge and things are smaller than 1:48 standard gauge.  Some people just swop out the Bachmann couplers for Kadee no.5s.

  Eric UK

[Swiny]

Thanks for your comments.  I was hoping to stay with a prototypical coupler size since it would be larger and presumably has better allignment tolerence between opposing couplers (smaller is tougher to maintain).  I would also like the option of mixing rolling stock manufacturers.  What is the advantage of swapping out Bachmann couplers with Kadee #5s?  Is the knuckle larger on Kadee #5s and closer to the typicle 9" high coupler normally used on narrow gauge?  Will #5s match up with Bachmann engine gear boxes.  Is the resulting height and fit of #5s compatable with Kadee 803s?  I appreciate all your feedback.  Its like a first time computer buyer.  One can spend a lot of money only to find out there was a better direction to taken . . . Swiny

[C.S.R.R. Manager]

This has been a topic of long discussions on various boards, and I'm going to try to repeat my impressions, without all the details.  The short answer is that narrow gauge railroads in the US used a variety of coupler sizes.  Some were 3/4 of full size, about the size of the Kadee On3 couplers, or Kadee S-Scale couplers.  Other couplers were smaller, and the HO couplers at 1:48 scale are a pretty close match for some of these.  So, the use of HO couplers for On30 trains is plausible, as long as you aren't trying to replicate a specific prototype that used the larger couplers, like the D&RG.

One more thing.  There are different coupler heights for On3 and On30.  The standard for On3 is 9/16" above the rail.  When Bachmann started making On30 trains, along with the HO track, they used the standard for HO couplers, which is 25/64" above the rails.  Most On30 modelers stick with the HO standard, but there are some that prefer the On3 standard.

The other thing you should know is that there isn't an On3 coupler that drops into the coupler pockets on Bachmann trains, not that I can find, at least.  The Kadee On3 couplers use a different mounting system, so you really have to replace the whole coupler pocket, and the way the centering spring works is really hard for me to deal with.  Personally, I would buy several copies of couplers, if someone [esp. Bachmann] would mount an On3 size knuckle on the mounting arm for my personal fave, the Kadee #148 HO coupler.  I think the larger coupler would look less "HO", and would provide more tolerance over rough trackwork.  Not that any of my trackwork is rough...

And to answer your question, the Bachmann HO couplers are almost exactly the same size as the Kadee #5 and #148.  I have all 3 intermixed, and my trains run fine.

Here are the Kadee On3 coupler specs.
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page176.htm


And the Kadee #148 HO specs:
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page397.htm

[finderskeepers]

I seem to remember dropping O scale kadee 803 couplers into the top slot of the two bay hopper without major hassles. I think the other cars I just cut off the styrene mounting tabs and mounted the 803 couplers in their boxes at the On3 height. To me having O scale cars with couplers at HO height doesn't look right.

[hminky]

Before I went to link-n-pins I modified the coupler pockets to look like a legacy height on more modern equipment



I have a "what I did" at:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/coupler_pocket/

It sure beats modifying the locomotives for a new coupler height

Thank you if you visit
Harold

[Tomcat]

Swiny,

would heartly recommend to go Harold´s way. Well, the Kadee No.5´s are not bigger that much as they are HO scale Couplers. I can recommend to use them if you have the older Bachmann e-Z mate Couplers on some cars. (Just check if they have the tiny little coupler springs on one side or if the have just a plastic twig - which are the older ones)
As some of my older cars had these, I had to replace them after a while, that plastic thing wears out... But this is no issue to blame Bachman for.
The newer Couplers work just fine and nearly just smooth as a Kadee would do.
So, this is the way I was going on my Logging/Maine Layout.

For my other, bigger layout, Colorado-Theme, I had chosen the other way as already described here: If you want to mix your rolling stock (as I wanted to do since I have a lot of Kit built Trains of Texas/Trout Creek Engineering and San Juan RTR/Kit built equipment)
its much better to switch to the Kadee 803/807 Couplers. This means, you need to do some more conversion on the cars (by removing the Coupler box by scraping and filing to get a smooth surface or on the Hoppers - milling since its a Metal Central beam) but this can be done. Don´t you worry, just take your time. But keep in mind, that the Coupler Height is completely different from the No.5/Bachmann E-Z mate Coupler Height. They won´t fit any more.

If you intend to model Colorado or EBT or something similar, these much bigger couplers look far better, if you rather have Logging or Maine or something older in mind, stick with the Bachman Couplers.

Well, I absolutely support the C.S.R.R. Managers Opinion for a demand to make the coming Bachman Rolling Stock more versatile by the couplers: If there would be a removable coupler pocket or some kind of removable coupler shim in order to attache HO Style OR ON3 style couplers, that would be great. Or - if you Kadee folks read this: Do a On30 coupler on a HO Coupler box arm which would ease up the conversion that much.

I could recommend the Bachmann people to make their cars easier conversionable to On3 which would open up the On3 Market (which may not be that big any more since On30 came out) for them too....

Kind regards, Tom

*...who just returned from a dream vacation up in Maine, foliage colors - oh Boy....

[hminky]

Most "HO" couplers aren't HO scale, they are just used in HO. See:

http://home.comcast.net/~brmetcalf/rr/couplerp.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~brmetcalf/rr/couplerm.htm

Just because they sell them as "HO" doesn't mean they are HO scale. Of course they can't sell them as what they really are.

Harold

[ebtnut]

The folks at Kadee have been asked occasionally about doing a correct 3/4 MCB coupler in 1/48, and so far they don't believe there is sufficient market to do that given the existing 803/807 series.  As for the "traditional" Kadee 5 HO couplers, they are indeed somewhat oversize.  A lot of S scale modelers used them in the past, even though they were a bit undersize for that scale.  As noted, you can go ahead as use the Kadees if your going to model light narrow gauge ops and equipment, and aren't following a specific prototype.  The D&RGW used full-size couplers on its narrow gauge equipment, while the EBT any most other narrow gauges used the 3/4 MCB coupler.  If I were sticking soley to On30, I would use the HO-size couplers.  Since I am in On3, I use the 803/807's for the narrow gauge and the full-size O scale couplers on the standard gauge.  I do some truck changing, ala EBT, and the O and On3 couplers do work together, so I don't have to try and model the coupler converter casting that the EBT used when hauling standard gauge cars on narrow gauge trucks.