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Author Topic: Mallet 2-6-6-2 loco  (Read 3237 times)
Eartheater

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« on: April 29, 2009, 07:00:54 AM »

Hi All
I have two of the above logging locos and am having some problems with them.

Both are fitted with Eloksound decoders 3.5 , and been faulty since new

Basically both run fine in DC - however they dont in DCC.

The sound is good on both, its getting them running properly, in that I use Lenz as my system and they will not start running below speed step 5.

Also when I use No 9 button the sound changes to a rattling sound, totally different from the original.

Also when stood and with sound minimal the locos make a continous wirring sound, which even with my poor hearing is easy to spot

Ive heard about chopping out the capacitators - which I am loathed to do, and various other possiblities.

Can anyone on here help with this one please
Graham
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StanAmes


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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2009, 07:03:54 AM »

Graham

I am a little confused by your post.

Let me try to help.

Normally the motor filter capacitorsí only effect operation.  If you ESU decoder is running the locomotive smoothly then there should be no need to remove them.  If the locomotive is not operating properly with the decoder most people remove them.

The sound effects are influenced a great deal by the speaker choice. ESU recommends a hi ohm speaker for best sound effects.  Since the speaker is connected directly to the decoder the locomotive should have no effect on the sound quality.  If you are not getting the proper sound I would contact ESU directly for their suggestions.

On your Lenz System in Version 3.5 the 9 key toggles the functions and should have no effect.  If version 3.6 the 9 key is the F9 function and depending on how the decoder is set up could cause the decoder to play a sound or turn on a light function.

Let us know what you find out from ESU.

Stan
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Eartheater

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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2009, 09:15:57 AM »

Hi Stan
Thanks you very much for your reply.
I have taken both decoders out and sent them back to where they came from, so that they can be fixed !!

What is annoying me most about this is that the loco will not move under its own power until I reach speed step 5 on the Lenz, even then I mostly have to give it a push to get it to move, once moving its fine, until I reduce the power down to speed step 3 - then it ceases to operate.

I need this Mallet to be able to move at the slowest of speeds, real slow, pushing some Bachmann skele logging trucks, the sound is fine, its the actual loco performance which Im bothered about.

All my other Bachmanns run fine, most are DCC, which makes me think that its the actual decoder which is the problem - which is why Ive sent them for re-setting.

The reason I mention capacitators - is because Ive been told they "could be the problem" - but Im not that sure - surely in 2009 these wouldnt cause a problem - or is UK electric so differnt to yours in the States ??

The sound made by the decoders is fine - I can accept that - its the movement of the loco which is causing me concern

The decoders should be back by this coming weekend - I will let you know what happens
thanks again
Graham
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Udo

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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2009, 09:51:28 AM »

Hello  Graham !

I also have a 2-6-6-2.
I have just installed an ESU LOKSOUND XL decoder.

The machine is running good, and the sound is perfect.

I also use the Lenz system.

In low speed my loco also has some problems, unconstant moving.

I think, that has the reason in the adjustment of the decoder.

May be that Bachmann mainboard makes some problem.

I I cvannot get the parameters adjusted in the decoder, I will try to bypass the Bachmann board.

Redgarding the sound, I am very happy, but one small problem.

The loco provides two chuff connections. I have tried each one seperate.

Each provides 4 chuffs per revolution. That is OK.

But I want to have in the start phase 8 chuffs, 4 from each truck.

So I connected the high pressure chuff to the same decoder connection only with a "relais" in between, operadet by a function buttion on the control. This will not work. IF I switch on the second shuff connection together with the first one, there is no change in the sound.

I am working on a solution.

By the way, which sound file do you use in the decoders ?

I use one of the german 86.

If you need some details of my experience, give me your e-mail address.

I can send you some pictures and descriptions about my cabling and also the sound file and CV configuration which I use.

Udo
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Eartheater

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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2009, 12:43:41 PM »

Hi Udu
Many thanks for replying
My Eloksound decoder was fitted by the retailer who sold me the Mallets, I think hes not that good at fitting Eloksound decoders - mine is a V3.0/3.5 Loksound XL

I think you are probably correct - my decoders I suspect are also faulty, which is why I have sent both of them back to the retailer, I should have them back this weekend.

Sound wise I am happy with it, the loco will go through all of the sounds without much problem, my problem is like yours, the movement of the actual loco.
I have tested my Mallet on both standard track and also on my standing track units - in neither mode will it move correctly.
When I switch on the Lenz, I find that it wont move, until a minimum of speed stop 5 - even then sometimes it needs a shove to move it, both my decoders do the same.
I require my Mallet to run properly at slow speed, in other words - like my other Bachmann locos - and I have Heisler, Climax, 2 Truck Shay, 3 Truck Shay, and Connie, Im not really asking for much - simply a loco that should run properly.
Anyway my email address is , hopefully we will get this sorted.

The problem Im talking about doesnt seem to happen when the Mallet is run without a decoder, it only happens when one is fitted, hence why I feel the decoder is causing the problem - it may even need a different decoder
Graham
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Nathan

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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2009, 02:16:06 PM »

You may need to adjust the 'Start Voltage'  and the 'Kick Start' to get them to run properly.  I have had several Bachmann loco's that I have fitted with DCC over the years and have to make these two changes on some of them.
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Udo

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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2009, 11:12:10 PM »

Hello Graham,

thanks for your description of the problem.

Just yesterday I checked my mallet again.

I have 28 speed steps, and I checked with my Lenz equipment.

The loco moves at step 1 already very slow, but in the moment not constant,

on step 2 it's OK.

I think, there are two problems:

First some mechanical problem with the worm gear in the rear truck, in the beginning, the fixing bolts of the loco were loose (as bought).

Second, I need to adjust the decoder to the motor characteristic mor proper.

By the way, I did not change anything at the lectric connections to the motors.

I also use the ESU programmer to modify the CVs as well as the sound. That works very good.

One more thing, your E-mail address is not in your answer (deleted by the Bachmann ?).

Here is mine:

udohoffmann@ymail.com

best regards,

hope the problem will be solved !
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Eartheater

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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 07:44:33 AM »

Hi Nathan
I have already adjusted the Start Voltage - which is set as low as possible.
How do I adjust the "Kick Start" - ??
Graham
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Nathan

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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2009, 09:09:34 AM »

Graham,

You want to set the Start Voltage [CV 63 is the normal one]for the point that the loco keeps running as you reduce the speed to you lowest speed step.

The Kick Start Should be CV 65.  Adjust it up to a point that the loco will start and keep running at your lowest speed step.  For a starting point set it to the speed step that you loco starts on its own.  You then can play a little to fine tune it.

There is also a 'Forward Reverse Trim' CV 66 that will help if there is a big difference between the forward and reverse speeds, bu in my loco's I have never had to use it.
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StanAmes


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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2009, 09:21:05 AM »

If the locomotive is too fast at speed step 1 you lower the value in CV2.  if the speed is to slow at apeed step 1 you raise the value in CV2.  Since you state that the locomotive does not move till speed step 4 or 5 then the value in CV2 is to low.  Raise this value and you should be happy.

One note on ESU decoders.  They have start-up sounds and most desire to have only sounds at speed step 1 and motion at speed step 2.

As far as I know the ESU decoder only has a single chuff input.  With 1 chuff input you can get the prototypical compount chuffs ( 4 chuffs per revolution).  Often compound locomotives had an option to have simple mode (8 chuffs) to help at startup and very slow speeds.  I do this on a P5 by using both locomotive chuff outputs and use a function to switch on an off the second chuff input.  I do not believe you can do this on an ESU decoder.  What you can do is use simple mode when you want to and compound mode when you want to by using the simulated simple mode.

Hope that helps.

Stan Ames
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Eartheater

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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2009, 09:44:16 AM »

Many thanks Nathan & Stan - I will get back to you
Graham,
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Eartheater

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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2009, 04:08:16 PM »

Hi All
Well, I finally got one of the decoders back from the retailer who had adjusted some of the CV numbers on the decoder.

The second decoder has gone back to manufacturer as it has a sound fault on it.

I refitted the decoder, and yes movement was slightly better in a backward motion, however forward movement could not be acheived below speed step 5.

I therefore removed the Eloksound decoder and instead fitted a non-sound Lenz Gold Maxi decoder which I have spare - Voila - the Mallet now crawls along - just as I wanted it to do.

I wonder what has caused this problem - is it the fact that the Eloksound decoder wont run properly because the loco needs so much initial power to get going - therfore what the decoder does is use up all the slow feed power for sound rather than movemnet ?

So - Ive sent both Eloksound decoders back to retailer who is going to replace them with another type of sound decoder - but whats the best one out there - come on folks
Graham
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Nathan

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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2009, 05:46:21 PM »

Graham,

There is no one 'best' decoder for every use.  One will work better in Locomotive A, another will work better in Locomotive B.  I have used non sound decoders from NCE and Digitrax and they both work for me.

Sound is a whole other story.  One person will like Brand A, another Brand B because 'It sounds the best'.  I am not a rivet counter, I use sound for public shows for the 'Wow' factor.  Most people just want to hear sound.  While i can spend up to $250 for a sound / motor decoder, I am will use a lower cost one, while other people in our club will always use the 'Top End'.  I have used Sound only units from Soundtraxx and Pheonix as well as the Soundtraxx  sound / motor decoder that comes with the 55 ton Shay.  Several of our club members use QSI.  For some low cost Locomotives you may want to try the MRC sound / motor decoders,  if they sound good to you, that is what counts.
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Eartheater

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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 08:22:23 AM »

Hi Nathan
Thanks for the reply
I also have a 3 Truck Shay, and that has a Tsunami sound unit in it - which is superb, so who makes these - Digitrax, Phoenix ?
Graham
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