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Author Topic: telephone polls  (Read 6486 times)
Atlantic Central

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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2009, 08:52:51 AM »

Ram,

In the old telegraph days they were copper. Today, they are aluminum for the most part, but power wiring does have a rubber/plastic coating making them black or grey. On high voltage lines it is not insulation, but protects the wire from corrosion and physical damage.

You may also be seeing what looks like a stranded steel cable, that is the neutral/ground conductor.

Large telephone cables are supported with a "messenger", an aluminum cable to which the large black phone cable (which has hundreds of wires inside) is straped to.

Cable TV wires are usually white, grey or silver and almost look like small piping hanging up there.

Lower voltage wires comming into your home will be two black wires twisted around a silver bare cable.

So there are lots of different possible stuff on the poles you see. If you know anyone who is an electrican, ask them to show you what is what.

Fact still remains, all this stuff is really small in HO and simple fishing line type products can be used if you really want to model it. the biggest cables up there are only 1-2" in diameter, most are much smaller.

Also, when viewed from any distance in daylight, they all look black because of their contrast with the sky. It is only when you get close and examine them you see the colors of the different types/parts. So for modeling, black will give the best effect.

Sheldon
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mf5117
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2009, 09:40:48 AM »

I didn't think I would get this type of responce, to this topic . I learned alot from reading the different opinions and knowledge .

Rather it be Telephone or Utility Poles , We are going to string them .

We are starting a Brook and a small Lake IE: Pond , and the Fishermen's Poles are strung .It's very small , but you can see it if you look . All in remembrance of my Father , Brook fishing Trout in Maine.

Our Scenery is being made unique , by the somewhat hidden things  you will find . All due to my Girlfriends preference .

Thanks for all the post , it's been very helpful
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Jim Banner

Enjoying electric model railroading since 1950.


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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2009, 12:19:32 PM »

Sheldon, I think you may be writing about the newer days of telegraph wires.  In the old telegraph days, the wires were typically iron.  Page 5 of the link below talks about telegraph lines in 1851 being #9 iron wire, about 3 mm in diameter. 

http://tinyurl.com/qec6p5

I have also read that the splices for joining iron wire were up to 2 feet long, I assume in an attempt to get conduction through the rust and scale.  I suspect that resistive joints were probably self correcting over time in that they were arc welded every time the line was hit by lightening.  Most, if not all, of these early circuits were single wire with the return via the earth and the sounder relays were inserted in series, not parallel.  The latter meant that longer circuits with more stations required higher voltage batteries, not fatter wires to carry more current.

It is my understanding that these single wire circuits remained in use until telephone came along.  Then they were replaced with quieter twin copper wire circuits.  The two wires gave a balanced circuit that rejected noise from ground currents, especially if they had a slow twist of a few turns per mile.  But I am not sure if the single wire circuits remained iron or were at some point upgraded to copper.

Bottom line, the telegraph poles on an early railway would most likely have no cross arms and would likely have only one wire.

Jim
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 02:23:30 AM by Jim Banner » Logged

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Atlantic Central

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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2009, 01:11:17 PM »

Jim,

You are quite correct and I should have been more specific. I was refering to what should be described as the second generation of telegraph, right before telephones.

And, as we have both pointed out, this stuff is so small it would be hard to model in O or G, let alone HO.

Sheldon
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BestSnowman


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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2009, 03:51:22 PM »

I just buried my power and communication lines when I was installing the sewer system.
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Jhanecker2

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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2009, 05:38:31 PM »

Last Year UP salvaged the wires on their poles . I asked the crew and they said that the railroad no longer used telegraph lines and used radios to conduct communications . They do have fiber-optic cables buried on their  right of way for use by telecommunication companies for extra revenue .
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mf5117
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2009, 06:01:59 PM »

That is why my Gf is doing the scenery . Yes it is tedious , but I here and read so much about being prototypical . And i know it is my choice .

We had a 2ft x 2ft Hilly Rocky scene with a pond in it . And a couple of the logs laying in the water , had the realistic Water and some of the effects Water on a couple of the log tops and was shiney on top .And oh my god the Lecture we got on natural looking surroundings .

Actually after looking and listening . It made really good sence .

I drove down the road today . It was pretty aparent . that the utility poles had lines .

I have seen some layouts , in the 30's era . With Industry black top roads with little city scene's .And i ask myself . Hmm , no telegraph poles .  did they use candles or oil lamps . How did they see power there industry . I know there was steam . But a whole city can't be ran by steam .

This has been an interesting topic     Thanks
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mf5117
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2009, 06:12:43 PM »

And ,And i say and ....The Bachmann Rail King Set, says it comes with 24 " Telephone Poles "  .

peace to everyone !!!!! gotta eat supper
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RAM

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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2009, 08:00:57 PM »

Sheldon.  This started out talking about telephone lines along the railroads, and not power lines.  I remember when one of my brothers lived on a farm in eastern Kansas.  When they had rain the phones would not work half of the time.  In the early days the lines along the railroad was for the railroad and western union.  Then they started to use them for drop lines for the signaling system.  Most if not all railroad have done away with the drop line system.  I think most railroads remove the poles and wires just to keep them from falling.
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glennk28

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« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2009, 09:01:17 PM »

I like the "mind supplies the wires" idea--

I recall at one time a lady modeler in N  scale not only had the wires on her module, but "birds" on the wires--little pieces of sawdust dipped in paint and stuck to the wires.

A handy tool for stringing the wires is a "Fly tyer's bobbin"  found at sporting goods stores that cater to fishermen who tie flies.  It has a spindle for the spool of thread and a tube that guides the thread.    gj
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Atlantic Central

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« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2009, 09:22:52 PM »

RAM,

There is nothing in the original posters message that states or even implies he is ONLY refering to power or communication lines along the tracks - you implied that.

Model scenes often include things not along the railroad right of way. The poster left it open for comment and interpretation.

I commented, as did others.

Sheldon
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Yampa Bob

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« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2009, 12:20:28 AM »

A little "realism" goes a long way. Without imagination, model railroading would be a constant frustration, trying to achieve "absolute realism".  The typical HO scale pole doesn't even look like a pole, it looks like a piece of plastic.  Cheesy

I don't have poles on my layout. Representing a modern day railroad or excursion with vintage equipment, all my phone and electric lines are "underground" and out of sight. How realistic is that?

I saw a TV documentary about a guy who had achieved "absolute realism".  His wife and dog left him, his eyes were glazed over, he was trembling and spoke in unintelligible grunts.

Now, who posted the mile long URL?  Please have pity on those of us who don't have 54" monitors and 10,000 X 7500 resolution.  Cheesy  Just kidding, but what happened to "Tiny URLs"?
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OkieRick

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« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2009, 01:32:52 AM »



Here are three prize winning layouts, modules or dioramas in both HO and N & Z scale that have poles.

http://www.walthers.com/exec/page/magic_09#

To me the wired poles photo is very good.  The poles w/o wires are just as good, IMHO.  I give top honors to the bottom left photo for his use of lighting.
Lack of wires is ok with me in this shot.

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Jim Banner

Enjoying electric model railroading since 1950.


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« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2009, 02:33:13 AM »

Now, who posted the mile long URL?  Please have pity on those of us who don't have 54" monitors and 10,000 X 7500 resolution.  Cheesy  Just kidding, but what happened to "Tiny URLs"?

Sorry about that, Bob.  Firefox wraps long URLs into multiple short lines.  But it seems I.E. does not.  At least not the version that I tried on another computer.  I long ago deactivated I.E. on my own computer - too leaky.  I have converted the offensive URL to a tiny one, and will try to remember to do so in the future, at least until you get that 54" plasma monitor.

Jim
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Yampa Bob

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« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2009, 05:26:48 AM »

Thanks Jim, much better. I have my text size set to "largest" which also causes me problems at web sites. Thank goodness for copy and paste, can't imagine typing a 211 character URL.  Cool

In case some members don't know about "Tiny URLs":
http://tinyurl.com/
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Rule Number One: It's Our Railroad.  Rule Number Two: Refer to Rule Number One.
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