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Author Topic: issues with williams engine  (Read 6408 times)
the nitro man

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« on: December 27, 2010, 11:54:48 PM »

i have a Williams 2-6-4 pink girls train set. it looks awesome & runs great but i have a couple issues with the engine. first off is the flywheel action. you would think with the big flywheel on the motor, it would have some flywheel action, but it doesn't. when the power is cut off, the engine stops. it's bad enough that it will derail cars.

the second issue is the smoke unit. i mean why even bother putting those smoke units in them? they don't produce any smoke. I've got an old tyco that will out smoke it. is there any upgrade smoke unit that will work?

i use an old Lionel zw275 R transformer. it runs great with this transformer, but it starts pulling just as soon as it gets power. the transformer doesn't start out at a low enough voltage & the engine will take off. the same about stopping it. the voltage is to high for it to make a nice stop. it acts like it slamming on the breaks because of the lack of flywheel action. is there anything i could do about this like maybe adding a resister on the motor to take some of the power?

it might sound like I'm not happy with it, but believe  me i love this little engine. it just has a couple issues.
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phillyreading

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« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2010, 11:05:50 AM »

Have you tried using a differant transformer, like the Z-1000 by MTH or the 80 watt transformer that Bachmann lists on the Williams website?
This way you won't lose your warrenty by messing with the electrical system inside your engine.

The old 275 watt ZW was designed for use with post war trains and has a very high starting voltage. Newer transformers have a lower starting voltage, also stay away from Lionel's CW-80(aka can't work 80) when using Williams trains, some work with the CW-80 and most don't work with the CW-80.

Lee F.
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the nitro man

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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2010, 01:40:44 PM »

i tried running it with a mth z750 & it seemed to slow down the longer it ran. not sure why, but with the lionel zw it trucks right along.
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2010, 04:42:46 PM »

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,14649.0.html
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
the nitro man

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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 06:09:57 PM »

hey Joe, I'm not sure what you was trying to show me? do you care to elaborate? with this being a steam engine with one motor, I'm not sure what the connection would be to the link you posted.
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phillyreading

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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2010, 12:41:50 PM »

i tried running it with a mth z750 & it seemed to slow down the longer it ran. not sure why, but with the lionel zw it trucks right along.

Try using the Z-1000, it is a 100 watt transformer. The Z-750 may not be strong enough for long runnning.

Lee F.
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2010, 01:06:04 PM »

Dear Nitro,

Sorry 'bout that.  I read too fast and thought pink "GG1" instead of pink "steam".

If you want a slower, more controllable loco and don't mind dimmer lights, put back to back 6 Amp diode pairs between the transformer and the lock-on.  (Advantage....no mods to loco.)

If you want a slower, more controllable loco but brighter lights, put back to back 6 amp diode pairs between the reverser board and the motor.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,13633.0.html

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
the nitro man

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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2010, 01:46:30 PM »

Joe, i'm going to be honest. i seen where you showed how to wire the diodes inside the engine, but i have no idea of what that meant. i can wire & solder, & i'm very comfortable doing it. it just i'm not able to figure out what i'm looking at in a diagram. how many diodes are needed all together? do you know a part number i could get at radio shack? i would rather put it in the engine so i can run it on any line without having to move the diodes around.

thanks for your help & patients.
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2010, 07:35:58 PM »

Dear Nitro,

Here is a radio shack 4-pack 6 Amp diode:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062591

Digi-Key or other electronic warehouses have them much cheaper, but you pay for S&H. 

2 diodes connect to make one pair:

Connect the stripe end of the first to the non-stripe end of the second.

Connect the non-stripe end of the first to the stripe end of the second.

Kinda looks like this on a schematic, the vertical line at the tip of the arrow represents the diode's stripe.  C1=connection point 1, etc.

c1-------->l-----------c2
       l              l
       l              l                    or, simplified:   c1----Pair----c2        or, simplified even further:  ---P---
       l              l
       ----l<-----

Diodes drop about 0.6 Volts each in forward bias.  That's the effect we are looking for.  The turned around diode allows the loco to travel in reverse.

Cut one of the motor leads (actually, either one will do) and add pairs between:

Reverser Board + motor output --------------------------------P----P----etc.---------------------------l
                                                                                                                                              (+)
                                                                                                                                            motor
                                                                                                                                              (-)
Reverser Board - motor output--------------------------------------------------------------------------l

You get 2 pair from a package of 4, which gives about 1.2 Volts drop.  2 packages = 2.4 Volts, etc.   

Important !

Take care to electrically insulate the diode leads to avoid touching anything metal inside the loco. 

Heat shrink tubing works well for that.

Don't mount the diode pairs too close to a plastic shell, as they can get warm.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
the nitro man

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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2010, 07:58:08 PM »

Joe, is there a bigger diode that could be used so it wouldn't take as many?

i was looking at these.

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-R-6-1000V-10A-Axial-Rectifier-Diode-R6-1KV-/190484105834?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c59bcca6a
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 08:04:54 PM by the nitro man » Logged
Joe Satnik


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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2011, 05:56:52 PM »

Again,

"Diodes drop about 0.6 Volts each in forward bias.  That's the effect we are looking for."

If you reduce the number of diodes stacked in series, you reduce the voltage dropping effect.

I chose 6 amp diodes because that matches the rated output of the reverser board. 

I suppose you could use smaller diodes, but you'd have to avoid heavy loads, high speeds and gradients..

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

 
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
the nitro man

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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2011, 08:04:35 PM »

so the diodes i posted a link to are smaller than the ones you showed in the posted link? that shows what i know. lol

how can you tell what voltage drop a given diode will give? i really need to learn this stuff.
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2011, 01:06:01 AM »

The diodes in the link you showed are bigger. 

Sorry for the confusion. 

I thought since you wanted to reduce the number of diodes, you might settle for a reduction in space (same number but smaller diodes). 

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
the nitro man

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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2011, 02:15:28 AM »

would the ones in the link be safe to use & would they reduce more power than the ones you suggested, or should i just use what you showed me? also, would this setup work on a/c motors as well?

Joe, thanks you very much for helping me.
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the nitro man

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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2011, 02:39:30 PM »

i put in four pairs of the diodes that you suggested. it starts & stops great now with my zw transformer.

i also ran the smoke unit from the center rail hot wire & a frame ground & it smokes like crazy. if i hadn't redused the voltage to the motor with the diodes it wouldn't have helped much if any.

thanks Joe for your help.
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