EZ Track #4 vs #5 turnout question....

[John Murphy]

I'm trying to build my first HO gauge railroad since 1971.  I aready purchased the EZ Track with #4 turnouts for sidings and #5 turnouts for crossovers.  The outside loop will be 18" radius and inside is 15" radius.  Because this is a holiday layout, I'll be using short locos (among them, a Spectrum 0-6-0 Saddle Tank steamer and several re-lettered 0-6-0's [the others are 0-6-0's w/ tenders).  This brings me to the crux of the question: The # 4 turnouts have plastic frogs and the #5 turnouts seem to have metal frogs.  The planned layout can use either #4 or # 5 turnouts for the inside sidings.  Which would provide greater engine running reliablity - the # 4 or the #5 turnouts?  The layout may or may not be DCC, depending on if I can get the track isolation needed for DC (DCC would sure simplify things, since I can always switch to DCC compatible steamers).

[Hunt]

Which would provide greater engine running reliablity - the # 4 or the #5 turnouts?

The #5 turnout.

[Bojangle]

Hi John
I've been working with Eztrack for a first layout.  I only have the #4,  and my GP40s work fine with them.  Since the 4 simply replaces a 9 inch section, its a little easier to connect things without having to cut small filler pieces.  I agree the 5 is a bit smoother and more realistic in the car overhang aspect.  If you plan to stay with the shorter locos, you will have no problems.
As I mentioned in another post, the turnout points were blunt on the end and stuck up a little above the track.  A little careful filing will fix them.
Bo

[Hunt]

Bachmann does not make a HO #4 turnout!

The HO E-Z Track Remote Turnout (Items No. 44561 and 44562) with the plastic frog has an 18” constant-radius divergent route.

Bo,
Bachmann's #5 and #6 turnouts are better able to handle short wheel base locomotives because the Frog can be polarized if required.

[Bojangle]

Thanks Hunt, I will add that to my notebook.  I may have some short locos later like the UP 119, I might try to power the frog on one.  I noticed Bachmann has instructions on the card to power the metal frog.
Bo

[John Murphy]

Bachmann does not make a HO #4 turnout!

The HO E-Z Track Remote Turnout (Items No. 44561 and 44562) with the plastic frog has an 18” constant-radius divergent route.

Hunt, thanks, but I hope you won't hold it against me for calling the EZ-Track turnout a #4 -- after all, that's what Bachmann advertizes it as.

Since I'm interested in my locos not stalling on turnouts, I think I should go with the #5 turnout.

Any tips on energising the metal frog for DCC would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.  - John

[Bojangle]

The instructions should be on the back of the package (card). Don't know if the instructions specify for DCC.  Someone else will probably answer this for you.
Bo

[Hunt]

John,
Where did you see an ad by Bachmann about a HO #4 turnout?

As Bo wrote, the instruction to connect the wire to polarize the Frog is on the back of the turnout package.

DCC components are not as tolerant of a short circuit even a momentary one as a DC power pack. So, unless you have too, do not polarize the Frog. It increases the chance you will experience momentary short circuits as equipment with metal wheels out of gauge roll through the turnout. Check to be sure the Frog insulating gaps are not compromised. There are other fine tunings to the turnout and rolling equipment you may have to do; but, we can cover those if situation dictates.

[Bojangle]

As beginner's we all make that mistake, just be patient with us, we will learn as we progress.   But   I have even heard the guys in hobby shops make the same error, just a habit. (or else they don't know the difference either)
Bo

[Hunt]

As beginner's we all make that mistake, just be patient with us, we will learn as we progress.   But   I have even heard the guys in hobby shops make the same error, just a habit. (or else they don't know the difference either)
Bo

Bo,
If your comments are intended for me, then know--- Patient is not a word that is applicable. If I did not have patients, I would not be answering questions on this Board.

To All,
My replies are given on a take it or leave basis. Those with an ego issue or are thin-skinned I strongly suggest… do not read any of my posts.

Because of the brevity of most of my replies, I do encourage all to request more information if needed. I also encourage anyone that has additional relevant and factually accurate information to add to any of my replies do so. However, if you don’t know and are just guessing don't waste your time and the ones who will read it.

[jsmvmd]

Dear Hunt,

Roger that.

Regarding your comment about powered vs. non-powered turnouts, have you read Lionel Strang's book on DCC?  If so, I believe he is a proponent of powered frogs as a way to avoid derailments if the points are set incorrectly. 

I have skimmed through Tony's DCC outline, and cannot figure if he advises for or against powered frogs. I sort of remember a discussion here several months ago.

Any info you can provide will be most appreciated, or a link .

Thank you and best wishes,

Jack

[Hunt]

Dear Hunt,

Roger that.

Regarding your comment about powered vs. non-powered turnouts, have you read Lionel Strang's book on DCC?  If so, I believe he is a proponent of powered frogs as a way to avoid derailments if the points are set incorrectly. 

I have skimmed through Tony's DCC outline, and cannot figure if he advises for or against powered frogs. I sort of remember a discussion here several months ago.

Any info you can provide will be most appreciated, or a link .

Thank you and best wishes,

Jack

Hi Jack,
I looked over Lionel Strang’s DCC Made Easy: Digital Command Control for Your Model Railroad paperback book when it first came out. So it has been awhile.

I recall he covers short circuit in a turnout and likelihood of derailment when traveling from the frog against the turnout route switch rails line when using powered vs. non-powered frog. Understand this has nothing to do with using DCC. Same derailment will happen if you are using DC. Such a derailment depends on how the turnout is designed and how the switch rails (a.k.a. Points) are moved. As I recall he has Shinohara. However, with so called snap type turnout you are not as likely to have the derailment he writes about.

Try it ---- You can usually successfully run your train both ways thought any E-Z Track turnout regardless of the line of the switch rails. Know when the E-Z Track frog is polarized it does not become power-routing type turnout. All routes are still powered.

I still suggest not powering the frog on any brand turnout unless you have a rolling equipment dictated need. Handle the derailments Lionel writes about, if they occur with the turnout you have, with operator discipline.

While it does not address E-Z Track turnout's wiring method directly, if you want to get into the details of wiring turnouts used with DCC  review http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm

[John Murphy]

John,
Where did you see an ad by Bachmann about a HO #4 turnout?

OK, where's the smiley showing my face turning totally red (and not from sunburn!)?  You're right.  Must've confused my teen years with the old HO Atlas snap-track and my 25-35 year-old years w/ N Atlas and Pico track.  This new stuff is alien to me.  Back then, we had to build even the electronics from scratch!  Just as reference, I was born in 1951....
John

[John Murphy]

I think I'm going with the #5 turnouts, if these turnouts' frogs can power the Spectrum 0-6-0 Saddle Tank steam switcher through the turnouts without stalling the loco at ~ 5 - 10 smph.  Input is appreciated.
  Thanks in advance.
  - John

[Hunt]

John,
Not sure what additional opinions will do for you. No one can give you a guarantee not having tested the overall running condition of your locomotive or knowing if the #5 turnout you use will perform as its design intended.

We are not talking about a lot of money here. Buy a #5 E-Z Track Turnout (or whatever brand you want to use) attach a few straight sections of track, connect power, test and fine tune if necessary. Be sure you have cleaned the track, cleaned the locomotives wheels and properly lubricate the locomotive, which includes placing a very small amount of conductive contact lube on the pick-up wheels' tread and electrical rub points before you start testing.

Have fun! And let us know how things turn out.