wheels jammed on 4-4-0 locomotive

[mtbarnes@aol.com]

My cat knocked the locomotive off the table, and now the large wheels are jammed. I'm afraid to unscrew them or force them. What is a good way to get them to release?

[Jim Banner]

By "the large are jammed," I assume you mean you cannot turn them.  But then again, you never could turn them.  The gears inside the locomotive allow the motor to turn the wheels but they do not allow the wheels to turn the motor, no matter how had you try to turn them.

If the wheels themselves are jammed, you are likely looking at a bent axle, partially stripped gears, or other major damage that will require replacement parts.  I would suggest in that case you should send your locomotive to Bachmann for repairs.

But maybe it is not the wheels that are jammed.  Maybe the valve gear or main rods are jammed.  This is not unusual after a trip to the floor.  If they hit anything, they tend to bend inward and catch on another rod or lever the next time the wheels try to turn.  If this is the case, you can often tell by running the locomotive in reverse.  With bend valve gear or rods, the wheels will usually turn half a turn or so them jam up again.  Watching what hits what can give you a clue to what needs to be straightened or rebent.  Comparing one side of the locomotive to the other side can also provide clues.

I am glad to hear that you did not force the wheels or try to unscrew them.  Forcing them would very likely have broken one of the internal gears.  As far as unscrewing them, very few H0 scale locomotives have the wheels screwed on or held on by screws.  I think the only ones still made that way are expensive brass locomotives.  Today's mass produced plastic locomotives normally have the wheels press fit onto splined axles and are not meant to be disassembled.

Jim 

[mtbarnes@aol.com]

Thanks! I'll give it another look and see about sending it to Bachmann.

[Desertdweller]

My cat narrowly avoided injury last week when a set of light Diesel units derailed and fell on the floor.  He saw them coming and got out of the way.  Damage was limited to a broken coupler mounting.

He leaves the trains alone, but has been known to operate a turntable.

Les

[richg]

Cats and model railroading do not mix, at all. One has to go.

Rich

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

I actually had a fatality on my layout once, accidentally ran over an ant on the railhead and killed him dead.  And another time, a small baby lizard came around the end of a car on a spur.  It was great, looked like a giant HO alligator.

PF

You could have put that lizard to work like that dinosaur on the Gorre & Daphetid. 

My condolences to the ant's family. Did they sue the railroad? 

[mark4112]

I have a similar problem. After my HO locomotive hit the floor. I inspected it and could not find any thing obviously broken. Now I place it on the track and nothing happens.  If I lift one end the motor begins to operate. I sit it back on the track and it stops. I lift the other end and the motor begins again. I am a newbie. The engine is a Union Pacific #866 . I think a 4-4-0.  sounds like a short but I can find nothing. Any ideas from the group ?

[Jim Banner]

mark4112,
Do you get any indication that the track is shorted when both ends of the locomotive are on the track?  If your power pack does not have a "short" or "overload" light to tell you, temporarily wire a 12 volt grain of wheat bulb across the track.  The light should be bright when the throttle is turned up and should only dim a bit when the locomotive is running.  If putting both ends of the locomotive on the track causes the light to dim a lot more or even go out, then you will know that the track is somehow being shorted out.  I am not sure if the Bachmann 4-4-0 has extra pickups on the four front wheels but if it does, I would suspect that the front truck somehow got turned 180^o causing the left wheels of the front truck to be connected to the right side drivers and vice versa.  This would cause a short when all 8 locomotive wheels are on the track.  If so, the solution would be to turn the front truck another 180^o.

Jim

[jonathan]

Another possibility:

The trip to the floor may have spun the tender trucks around backwards.  When you lift the front, then the rear of the locomotive (tender?), do the wheels change direction?

You didn't mention if the 4-4-0 is the standard version or the Spectrum version.

Regards,

Jonathan

[mark4112]

Jim and Jonathan, thank you both for your input.  What you say makes sense although I know little about electricity. The rails check out ok with a continuity meter.   The front trucks got knock out in the accident and I may have inserted them backwards. The motor is in the rear and although it was not knocked loose, I suppose it could have turned 180 degrees.  I will  reconfigure and try again. I will also try the wheat bulb test.  This is an old model 4-4-0. I do not think it is a Spectrum but I really don't know how to tell. The loco has pickup wipers on both sets of trucks.

The transformer does not have a short or overload light BUT It is tripping. I can hear the click. It resets itself in a couple of minutes and clicks again.

Here's another question/observation. I can see the red and black wires running to each truck.  Should I configure the trucks so the red wire is on the same side on front and rear ?

[jonathan]

Mark,

OK, sounds like you have the standard American 4-4-0.  It's been a while since I tinkered with mine.  I'm doing this from memory, so bear with me if I get this wrong.

I believe the front truck does pick up current.  It is directly connected to one side of the the headlight.  So if the headlight comes on, it is oriented correctly.

The right side of the driver wheels pick up current.  The left side should have traction tires for pulling power.

On the tender, I THINK both sets of trucks should pick up current from the left side.  It is very, VERY easy to turn these trucks backwards.  I believe that is what has happened to your locomotive.  Experiment by turning the rear truck around and see if your locomotive runs.  If not, turn the rear truck back around.  Then, try turning the tender's front truck.  See what I'm getting at?

Based on your words, without pictures, it seems logical this is what happended when you locomotive took a tumble. 

There should be a wire that connects the locomotive to the tender  This is where the right side current comes from.  There is also a plastic connector, that sends the force from the tender motor to the drive wheels in the locomotive.  Make sure that is not broken.

Surprisingly, these little guys can take some abuse and still keep running.  I've monkied with mine, a bunch, in the past, and pulled way too many cars with it.  Still takes off whenever I put it on the track.

Regards,

Jonathan

[mark4112]

Jonathan, thank you. I will attempt what you outline.  I have made a mistake in my description of the locomotive I guess. I don't know if that make a difference in the problem or potential solutions.  This locomotive does not have a tender. It is only the locomotive. It has two trucks with 4 wheels each. I guess that makes it a 4-4 not a 4-4-0. The rear truck under the motor has two wheels with bands around them . I assume these are the drive wheels.  The front truck does have wipers and is wired to the light as you indicate. Now I also guess that the plastic cowling could be flipped and the "front" placed over the motor but I looked up some photos on the Bachmann site and it appears the motor should be situated in the rear of the locomotive.  Apologies to all for my amateurish descriptions but your advice is very much appreciated. 

[on30gn15]

This is starting to sound like it is a diesel instead of a steam loco?

[mark4112]

It is a diesel.  Union Pacific 866. Purchased in the mid 80's. Performed flawlessly but sparingly until this recent incident.

[on30gn15]

Aw man.  

Be nice to be closer and meet at the RR club building or the local hobby shop and have a look at it and be able to sort out in person what is going on.

Google found photos of the model
http://devilanse.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/nablopomo-union-pacific-866/

In the early diesel days in the 1940s and 1950s, some RRs did use the same wheel arrangement classification system as used on steamers to classify their diesels.
Which means a 4-axle diesel like yours the RR might have labeled an 0-4-4-0.

Eventually an alphabet system was generally settled on. Which would make the real one of your loco which has 2 trucks with 2 axles each, a "B-B" wheel arrangement.