ONLINE
STORE
"ASK THE BACH MAN"
FORUM
PARTS, SERVICE,
& INFORMATION
CATALOGS AND
BROCHURES

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 09, 2019, 05:39:16 PM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Please read the Forum Code of Conduct   >>Click Here <<
+  Bachmann Message Board
|-+  Discussion Boards
| |-+  General Discussion
| | |-+  Returning to HO after 50 years...have questions
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Returning to HO after 50 years...have questions  (Read 4049 times)
HankMauel

View Profile
« on: August 04, 2012, 06:45:27 PM »

Hello all.
I'm returning to HO after more than 50 years...my last layout was dismantled in 1960 at age 15!

I have been designing a new small "starter" layout and for my first new engine I purchased an 0-6-0T Bachmann swithcher.  It's equipped with DCC (which I will eventaually be incorporating on the layout) but states in the paperwork that it is 100% backward compatible with DC operation.
However, when I tried it on a section of test track with a normal DC power pack...nothing.

Now I know I have a lot to catch up on, but have I misunderstood the Bachmann paperwork?  There is nothing in the box addressing any changes needed.  Do I need to "disconnect" some part of the DCC to get it to work on a regular DC powerpack? Or am I more lost than I think I am? Huh?
Logged
richg
Guest
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2012, 07:00:29 PM »

Welcome.
Probably not obvious but there is a HO forum.

First thing, a dual mode loco needs at least half throttle to respond. Most DC only locos start moving at a lower voltage.
Decoders need  five volts DC just to wake up the microprocessor on the decoder and maybe seven volts for the loco to begin moving.

Try touching the power pack leads right to the loco wheels. You can also do this with a 9 volt battery and it should respond a little.
The lights should come on also.
Is this loco new from a LHS or private sale. With private sale, some turn of the DC option as it sometimes causes issues when run by a DCC controller.

Rich
Logged
richg
Guest
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2012, 07:04:20 PM »

Any loco with a decoder does not get straight DC from the rails. The microprocessor sends Pulse Width Modulation pulse's to the motor.
The microprocessor determines on how to run the motor and lights if DC or DCC.

Rich
Logged
HankMauel

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2012, 10:00:46 PM »

The engine is brand new, from Walther's.
Tried touching the wheels with leads, at varied "throttles"...low to full tilt.  Nothing, not a hum, no lights, absolutely nada...just like when sitting on the track.

I have put a multimeter across both the tracks and the leads and get rising readings as I run the throttle from stop to full power.

Is there a static check for the engine?  Wouldn't the microprocessor be the equivalent of a "broken" wire so the meter won't give a reading for continuity?

Like I said...I have a LOT of catching up to do since 1960's wiring and control circuitry.
Logged
richg
Guest
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2012, 11:57:01 PM »

The microprocessor looks for pulses or if no pulses, it operates in the DC mode and responds to varying DC voltage.. Might be a defective loco.
I have measured the resistance at the wheels of a decoder equipped loco but do not remember what the exact reading was. I am guessing about 20,000 ohms with the decoder installed.
Not too difficult to remove the shell as I have one of these. Take a look inside. There are jumper clips to install when the decoder is removed.
You can also remove the decoder and touch the power leads to the two motor wires. Never put any power to a loco motor with a decoder installed. Sure way to smoke a decoder.
Your choice unless you know someone with a DCC system.

Rich
Logged
richg
Guest
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2012, 09:56:35 AM »

After 50 years I would say you have a steep learning curve when it comes to DCC.

Below is a useful link with lots of info about DCC.

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn/index.htm

The below link shows you what a basic decoder looks like. Many decoders also include sound circuits.

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm

Rich
Logged
HankMauel

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2012, 01:20:55 PM »

Thanks for the links and input on the engine, richg.

I think I will remove the body shell as suggested, disconnect the decoder system and try to energize the motor directly.  If that works, then I guess a call to Bachmann's Customer Service line is in order tomorrow.
Doubt they even have my warranty registration card yet.

As mentioned, the engine is brand new, just out of the box and there are no instructions saying there is a need to do any changing of circuitry to run on basic DC.  In their words "it is 100% backward compatible with DC"

Thanks again and please have patience with my "learning curve"! Wink
Logged
richg
Guest
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2012, 01:51:17 PM »

Below is the diagram you should have got with your loco.
Mine was DCC Ready and had two metal clips on the terminal strip so it could run on DC. All I have to do is pull the clips and solder the proper wires to each terminal.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/81811.pdf

Rich
Logged
Desertdweller

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2012, 03:26:25 PM »

Do you want to have a DCC layout or a DC one?  If you don't want DCC, take off the decoder and wire the loco for normal DC operation.  You can then operate it with your DC powerpack, and won't have to give it half throttle to get it to move.

I personally don't use DCC.  I think the advantages of DC operation outweigh those of DCC.

Les
Logged
RAM

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2012, 03:36:41 PM »

Unless I missed something, it looks like you are not getting power.  Make sure the the plug between locomotive and tender is plagged in all the way.
Logged
richg
Guest
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2012, 04:20:06 PM »

The PC board on my DCC ready is a little different than the one that is DCC on board. The diagram does not show any clips to modify for DC. I will check mine that has the clips and let you know which pins to jumper.
Anyone reading this, the OP is new to DCC so don't just mention, connect the terminals without details.

Rich
Logged
NarrowMinded


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2012, 04:55:08 PM »

Your Loco should run fine on DC right out of the box, Why fix or tinker with something that is brand new and should be running. return the loco for a new one and enjoy running your loco

NM-Jeff

Logged
richg
Guest
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2012, 08:21:05 PM »

Your Loco should run fine on DC right out of the box, Why fix or tinker with something that is brand new and should be running. return the loco for a new one and enjoy running your loco

NM-Jeff



The OP clearly said the loco is not working with DC power and want to see if he can figure it out which is what I would do as I like the challenge and I assume he wants the challenge.

Rich
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 08:24:09 PM by richg » Logged
richg
Guest
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2012, 08:34:49 PM »

I looked at the diagram that came with my 0-6-0T and it came with two clips to run the loco as DC . A little different than yours. The diagram for yours does not show the DC adapter clips that many Spectrum;s come with. Bachmann is known to be inconsistent in the same series of a loco.
You will eventually realize Bachmann does not use the NMRA wiring color code for many of their DCC locos.

Rich
Logged
NarrowMinded


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2012, 09:38:18 PM »

Quote
The OP clearly said the loco is not working with DC power and want to see if he can figure it out which is what I would do as I like the challenge and I assume he wants the challenge.

Richg,
I am so happy for you that you like to repair defective locomotives that's great!

I'm really not sure why you are commenting on my post...

I read the OP and it appears that he originally was looking for aid to see if there is something he needed to do along the lines of normal operation and or settings to make his loco function on DC, My statement is to clarify that he should have to do nothing to the locomotive at all it should run on straight DC right out of the box.

if he wants to take it apart and try and fix it and possibly void the warranty on a new loco that is his choice.

Quote
Any loco with a decoder does not get straight DC from the rails
This statement is wrong.
when you place a decoder equipped loco on a DC powered track it does get DC straight from the rails, how else does the decoder get power to turn on the lights and run the motor.

NM-Jeff
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!